The Outsider Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 You are suggesting that there are some particular neutrinos that are traveling faster than the speed of light? And that they were somehow isolated and trapped while traveling faster than light across the universe and then shipped to a few labs where they were made to stand still for a brief moment at the starting line before shooting off and continuing their incredible journey through space and time. Neutrinos for such uses are birthed at the time of the experiment by colliding protons against a solid target. What we have here is the news that neutrinos, any odd neutrino, can be accelerated to travel faster than light if the results of the experiment are found to be valid. What he is suggesting is that is he has no clue about particle Physics and field theory but munhchodi par koi tax to hota nahin hai - even Obama would fail to tax the BS he and Nirvanam sprout!
Raghav_12 Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 It's has been some time, since I touched Physics, but isn't these results -if found to be true- undermine whatever Einstein and Modern Physics has taught us. Isn't Speed of light some fundamental universal constant like G? If you go by Relativity theories, mass of neutrinos should have been Infinite if they are going at the speed of light. Though I may sound idiotic making this statement, just wondering, could it mean we have measured speed of light wrongly?
Prakat Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 What he is suggesting is that is he has no clue about particle Physics and field theory but munhchodi par koi tax to hota nahin hai - even Obama would fail to tax the BS he and Nirvanam sprout! In the same mould. He's been winging it on this thread as always. He started by assuming a random contrarian position and is now defending it in a way that is classic nirvanam. His sorry victories over little ganeshran are must reads.
akshayxyz Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 What he is suggesting is that is he has no clue about particle Physics and field theory but munhchodi par koi tax to hota nahin hai - even Obama would fail to tax the BS he and Nirvanam sprout! If you already know everything and have no intention to share it with the world, except for spouting such BS and throwing smilies here and there, then perhaps you are wasting time and space on earth. Stop acting like a sanki budhau... if you respect your field of expertise, then you wouldn't be behaving like one. With all your expertise and access to resources on particle physics, why don't you tell us, if neutrinos are indeed proven to be traveling at FTL, then what are various explanations you can come up with without invalidating much of the established facts. In the same mould. He's been winging it on this thread as always. He started by assuming a random contrarian position and is now defending it in a way that is classic nirvanam. His sorry victories over little ganeshran are must reads. If you failed to notice, first thing I said - most likely it is experimentation/observation error. My posts later on the topic are either attempt on humor, or random thoughts - not a well researched academic paper. Anyway if this news is proven to be true and can be replicated independently, what are the various explanations ( logical/factual validations can wait) you can think of without invalidating much of established facts that you can recall from your memory. And no I am not trying to win anything - I already said, I am just a casual reader of this subject matter - on top of that I assumed a position that I do not necessarily support to begin with... - so I am bound to make mistakes, because of limited access to established facts.... So, either you/or other expert can correct them, or continue behaving like a jerk.
akshayxyz Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 You are suggesting that there are some particular neutrinos that are traveling faster than the speed of light? And that they were somehow isolated and trapped while traveling faster than light across the universe and then shipped to a few labs where they were made to stand still for a brief moment at the starting line before shooting off and continuing their incredible journey through space and time. Neutrinos for such uses are birthed at the time of the experiment by colliding protons against a solid target. What we have here is the news that neutrinos, any odd neutrino, can be accelerated to travel faster than light if the results of the experiment are found to be valid. I did not say that. I read the idea somewhere on reddit/phsyorg comments, and I liked it - because neutrinos are known to be inert, and can easily pass through even earth w/o getting affected. As for how can they appear in that tunnel - since its no big deal for neutrinos to pass through earth, it should not be big deal for them to enter the lab - unless of course the lab is already proven to be 100% insulated to outside neutrinos. Even then - there is this hypothetical device, so far only found in fiction - worm holes - I do not need to say if worm-holes indeed exist, even for a nanosecond - what all weird stuff one can witness. Meanwhile - Can you tell us how are neutrinos 'accelerated from stand still' in controlled environment? As neutrinos are known to be electrically neutral and have very small mass.
King Tendulkar Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 I used to say that newbies were better then ancient relics. As I always said Tendulkar and modernity was always going to be superior to the balck and white generation of Bradman and co. But then the argument of Einstein was brought up i.e you saying Einstein is not greatest scientist ever, you saying he is not as good as modern scienticis? Well actually it seems he is not as good as modern scientists, as he was wrong after all.:cantstop:
akshayxyz Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 Akshay' date=' my query was about what would make primordial neutrinos different from the ones originating from the Sun or in an experiment like CERN.[/quote'] I do not know. I just picked this idea of primordial neutrino somehow appearing in the tunnel - from reddit/physorg comments -, and liked it - as neutrinos are known to pass through solid w/o getting affected, and I don't know whether wormholes are already conclusively proven to not-exist. Of course there is no way to tag which neutrino comes from when/where. But to me it makes more sense that some neutrino which is already travelling FTL to continue travelling at FTL, than accelerating a slower one to FTL - which is what Einstein's aatma would be more happy with. How they might appear in that experiment is something I can talk only based on hypothetical devices, as I am not the field expert to be abreast of which of them are already conclusively proven to not exist. And one of biggest grey area in cosmology is the moments after big-bang. Whether it left over some neutrinos/worm-holes/some-other-device/some-other-particle is something yet to be explored and (dis)proven.
akshayxyz Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 In short - if OP observation is proven to be true. Then, as of now, I like the hypothesis of "some neutrino already travelling at FTL" more than "making one breach the speed of light barrier" - until the exact mechanism is figured out scientifically.
ganeshran Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 In the same mould. He's been winging it on this thread as always. He started by assuming a random contrarian position and is now defending it in a way that is classic nirvanam. His sorry victories over little ganeshran are must reads. Victories and Little :WTF: Am I missing something here
ganeshran Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 I used to say that newbies were better then ancient relics. As I always said Tendulkar and modernity was always going to be superior to the balck and white generation of Bradman and co. But then the argument of Einstein was brought up i.e you saying Einstein is not greatest scientist ever, you saying he is not as good as modern scienticis? Well actually it seems he is not as good as modern scientists, as he was wrong after all.:cantstop: Thats not proven yet.
Blue Panther Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 Below my dignity to comment on this matter.:winky:
Prakat Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 If you already know everything and have no intention to share it with the world, except for spouting such BS and throwing smilies here and there, then perhaps you are wasting time and space on earth. Stop acting like a sanki budhau... if you respect your field of expertise, then you wouldn't be behaving like one. With all your expertise and access to resources on particle physics, why don't you tell us, if neutrinos are indeed proven to be traveling at FTL, then what are various explanations you can come up with without invalidating much of the established facts. If you failed to notice, first thing I said - most likely it is experimentation/observation error. My posts later on the topic are either attempt on humor, or random thoughts - not a well researched academic paper. Anyway if this news is proven to be true and can be replicated independently, what are the various explanations ( logical/factual validations can wait) you can think of without invalidating much of established facts that you can recall from your memory. And no I am not trying to win anything - I already said, I am just a casual reader of this subject matter - on top of that I assumed a position that I do not necessarily support to begin with... - so I am bound to make mistakes, because of limited access to established facts.... So, either you/or other expert can correct them, or continue behaving like a jerk. I did not say that. I read the idea somewhere on reddit/phsyorg comments, and I liked it - because neutrinos are known to be inert, and can easily pass through even earth w/o getting affected. As for how can they appear in that tunnel - since its no big deal for neutrinos to pass through earth, it should not be big deal for them to enter the lab - unless of course the lab is already proven to be 100% insulated to outside neutrinos. Even then - there is this hypothetical device, so far only found in fiction - worm holes - I do not need to say if worm-holes indeed exist, even for a nanosecond - what all weird stuff one can witness. Meanwhile - Can you tell us how are neutrinos 'accelerated from stand still' in controlled environment? As neutrinos are known to be electrically neutral and have very small mass. When someone did try to correct you, you reacted like a jerk, calling him a know-it-all, accused him of spouting BS, called him a burden on earth and so on. I am not sure you are incentivizing anyone else into discussing with you. I certainly am not inclined to take you up on your offer.
asterix Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 Below my dignity to comment on this matter.:winky: :cantstop:
rkt.india Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 ye lo..kal lo baat...ise bolte hain Begaani shaadi me Abdulla diwana.... ye to bhool hi gaye ke "ek baar agar maine speed pakad li main to main light ki speed bhi nahi dekhta"...Singham...Singham...jab vo chale to chaddi ud jaaye....:--D
Yoda-esque Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 ye lo..kal lo baat...ise bolte hain Begaani shaadi me Abdulla diwana.... ye to bhool hi gaye ke "ek baar agar maine speed pakad li main to main light ki speed bhi nahi dekhta"...Singham...Singham...:--D :giggle:
akshayxyz Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 In the same mould. He's been winging it on this thread as always. He started by assuming a random contrarian position and is now defending it in a way that is classic nirvanam. His sorry victories over little ganeshran are must reads. Victories and Little :WTF: Am I missing something here Even I do not know - where from Mr. kataria came up with this BS. Must be some sort of insecurity that he is keeping track of some imaginary internet victories and medals.. that too others'. When someone did try to correct you' date=' you reacted like a jerk, calling him a know-it-all, accused him of spouting BS, called him a burden on earth and so on. I am not sure you are incentivizing anyone else into discussing with you. I certainly am not inclined to take you up on your offer.[/quote'] jerk - was a response to 'munhchodi' and hysterical smilies.. that perhaps you confused with some lesson on particle physics... go through the flow of the thread..and you would know what is my original stand, and who started with the tapori language... anyway..I wouldn't want to waste much time with you either. stay happy counting your and others internet medals. P.S. If you want to stay on the topic - you can start with educating rest of us, how neutrinos can be accelerated, from rest or from subluminal speed to FTL speed - given that the observation in OP is proven to be true.
akshayxyz Posted September 25, 2011 Posted September 25, 2011 In short - if OP observation is proven to be true. Then' date=' as of now, I like the hypothesis of "some neutrino already travelling at FTL" more than "making one breach the speed of light barrier" - until the exact mechanism is figured out scientifically.[/quote'] the point I considered - neutrino, which is electrically neutral and it can pass through ordinary matter w/o getting affected - it should be extremely difficult to accelerate such a particle. And accelerating beyond speed of light comes with its own set of problems - if it is non-zero mass. So - if it was not measurement/calculation error - I would prefer to think that neutrino was already traveling Faster Than Light - from its birth.
akshayxyz Posted September 25, 2011 Posted September 25, 2011 Akshay' date=' my query was about what would make primordial neutrinos different from the ones originating from the Sun or in an experiment like CERN.[/quote'] I closed my book of quantum mechanics more than a decade ago. You being the active expert of the field, you were supposed to provide correct information and not derogatory smilies/hystericals or ask questions whose answers must be on your finger tips. Anyway - I figured it out. Thanks for your help.
The Outsider Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 the point I considered - neutrino, which is electrically neutral and it can pass through ordinary matter w/o getting affected - it should be extremely difficult to accelerate such a particle. And accelerating beyond speed of light comes with its own set of problems - if it is non-zero mass. So - if it was not measurement/calculation error - I would prefer to think that neutrino was already traveling Faster Than Light - from its birth. Particles which react to EM are accelerated using beams, which in turn produce neutrinos. Neutrinos are never accelerated directly, at least that was the last I heard.
The Outsider Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 I closed my book of quantum mechanics more than a decade ago. You being the active expert of the field, you were supposed to provide correct information and not derogatory smilies/hystericals or ask questions whose answers must be on your finger tips. Anyway - I figured it out. Thanks for your help. Good for you and the society given your understanding of QM, forget about QFT. I am not an active expert in the field. Are you willing to listen to correct information?
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