Shami ahmed-First impression..!!!

[Old guy]

I'm not saying that Dhoni isn't reluctant to play people without experience. I'm just trying to reason with the crazy people who say that Dhoni hates place bowlers with a serious passion and never wants to play them. If Dhoni didn't want them' date=' they wouldn't have come in.[/quote'] nah dhoni just prefers line and length bowlers and you can tell that from his interviews .. he does not uses quick bowlers as quick bowlers but that is expected from indian captain

[Laaloo]

nah dhoni just prefers line and length bowlers and you can tell that from his interviews .. he does not uses quick bowlers as quick bowlers but that is expected from indian captain

+++ Dhoni just doesn't know how to handle pace bowlers.

[express bowling]

I'm not saying that Dhoni isn't reluctant to play people without experience. I'm just trying to reason with the crazy people who say that Dhoni hates place bowlers with a serious passion and never wants to play them. If Dhoni didn't want them' date=' they wouldn't have come in.[/quote'] I don't think Dhoni would dislike a high quality readymade quick if he got one. But he is not willing to encourage fast men or give them any preference over gentle medium pacers, like captains of most other countries do. Most countries and their captains seem to treasure a 145+ pacer and are willing to walk the extra mile to develop them as quality products. That is not the case with Dhoni. He doesn't seem to demarcated between the potential of a Yadav and a Vinay.

[panther]

MashaAllah beef theory gaining momentum.

[Old guy]

+++ Dhoni just doesn't know how to handle pace bowlers.

fine example would be to use them right after wicket falls but dhoni bowls kohli or raina to get in some overs.. you know if wicket falls johnson will be there to scare the shyte out of raina and lower order even before they are set but with dhoni you get kohli and co and batsmen gets set and after that on flat tracks its too late and too un realistic to expect bowler to get set batsmen out..

[Ibes]

Want to see him go past 140 kph, He needs to fight fight for that spot :weights:

[msb1991]

india is very diverse and i will never buy that we dont have strong people here its just poor reasoning by fans who dont understand these things.. fitness and attitude is biggest difference and lately we are seeing change in attitude and all of sudden we have plenty of guys bowling around 140k and one of them is good enough to be counted as one of quickest in world (umesh yadav )

I'm not saying that India don't have strong people. I think that the culture of working out in the gym as a full time activity is more ingrained in the England and Australian cricketing culture than Indians. It is not ideal to be a big hulking figure, but I think if someone does look very skinny (Unadkat, Ishant), then it is likely they do not work out in the gym a great deal. I'm making no points about genetics or saying that you need to be strong to bowl fast. I'm saying that being strong will help and that going to the gym often will make you strong and I believe (not know) that Indian players do not gym as often as English or Australian players.

[Ibes]

Healthy clean drinking water, affordable Health Care, clean foods all are important to produce generation after generation of athletic specimens but everything has been given to people like Sharma, Munaf and others, they should not fail. In b4 Pakis produce pace sensations....Raina would be known as the greatest fielder in Pak history.

[msb1991]

Healthy clean drinking water, affordable Health Care, clean foods all are important to produce generation after generation of athletic specimens but everything has been given to people like Sharma, Munaf and others, they should not fail. In b4 Pakis produce pace sensations....Raina would be known as the greatest fielder in Pak history.

I recall someone asking Ishant Sharma about his physical training and him saying that they have so many camps that they are always training and this is both good and bad. It is good that fitness and strength is taken seriously. But I think that a lot of strength and conditioning is about what players do in their own time. Surely a lot of a players' time is free time and this is the time that Brett Lee and Mitchell Johnson and others (Atul Sharma :winky:) spend in the gym.

[Old guy]

I'm not saying that India don't have strong people. I think that the culture of working out in the gym as a full time activity is more ingrained in the England and Australian cricketing culture than Indians. It is not ideal to be a big hulking figure' date=' but I think if someone does look very skinny (Unadkat, Ishant), then it is likely they do not work out in the gym a great deal. I'm making no points about genetics or saying that you need to be strong to bowl fast. I'm saying that being strong will help and that going to the gym often will make you strong and I believe (not know) that Indian players do not gym as often as English or Australian players.[/quote'] all i am saying is if they want to bowl fast they will go to gym and do everything shami already did this and pandey said this is one area is he is going to work on after he toured with a team.. so to me problem is not just culture of gym for me its attitude..if ishant sharma has lost so 20k of his bowling in one year then something is terribly wrong and even now nothing is being done to correct it. i think we are discussing different things here.. since you have been involved in cricket maybe you know more so i will ask you as players of professional game where they use physical strength for advantage why do you think bowlers are not working hard to get strong ? to me its simple its their attitude of being content with line and length..to me its stupid to drop pace to 130k if you can bowl with equal accuracy at 140k . in england or australia if bowler can bowl at 140k with decent contorl they will bowl at that speed but in india our ishant sharma who can bowl at 150k will bowl at 130 or some times even less! my point is maybe lack of fitness is also symptom of this attitude of bowlers to cut down pace for no reason.. give me one good reason to decrease pace if it does not increase your accuracy or bowling in any way ?

[Old guy]

I recall someone asking Ishant Sharma about his physical training and him saying that they have so many camps that they are always training and this is both good and bad. It is good that fitness and strength is taken seriously. But I think that a lot of strength and conditioning is about what players do in their own time. Surely a lot of a players' time is free time and this is the time that Brett Lee and Mitchell Johnson and others (Atul Sharma :winky:) spend in the gym.

fair enough but should team management accept drop in pace from 145 + to 130 jsut because he was lazy in personal time ? aussies never will..even always injured shane watson tried to bowl as quick as he can:winky:

[Ibes]

fair enough but should team management accept drop in pace from 145 + to 130 jsut because he was lazy in personal time ? aussies never will..even always injured shane watson tried to bowl as quick as he can:winky:

They have high-character guys. I think as a rule their system of U-19s, U-15s to Intl progression teaches this and those coaches probably don't coddle as much as us. Look at someone like Bresnan from fat to decently fit and no drop in pace at all. Finn and Broad's pace have actually improved. All the Aussies maintain pace even at the risk of injury. I mean I enjoy torture just as much as anyone else but almost every game I'm wondering how these shyte bowlers are able to pick wickets. Maybe if I don't watch they'll probably bowl better, yea its prolly my fault again.

[rkt.india]

one started playing at age of 19 and in test match where every one was getting smacked other debuted in odi and never bowled more than 5 overs on trot and still never consistently hit 140 k before to me pace was not big difference ,they are different kind of bowlers.. you can ask anyone who saw last series in zimbabwe and they will tell you unadkar looked the quickest and that is what i said..

Pace was certainly a difference. Unadkat hardly troubled any batsman yesterday while Shami moved the ball both ways at around 140K. There was huge 15K of difference in pace of both bowlers from 125-140. Shami took them by surprise as they faced 130K or less pace whole series from most Indian pacers and did not Shami to be that quick and with pace, he moved the ball in the air and off the seam. Vinay and Unadkat could not do anything even on a pitch where there was some help for them.

[rkt.india]

quote from above article posted here.. so basically he is fitter and above that he bowled quicker

You ignored this quote.

Bailey, who revived Australia after Shami's burst in the company of Glenn Maxwell, also said the fast bowler did a fine job. "He bowled very well," Bailey said. "He's someone we haven't seen in the series and he was a little bit quicker than what we expected. He certainly got a bit of movement off the seam. That's something to be pretty aware of for the rest of the series. That's obviously what's going to be coming at us."

[rkt.india]

india is very diverse and i will never buy that we dont have strong people here its just poor reasoning by fans who dont understand these things.. fitness and attitude is biggest difference and lately we are seeing change in attitude and all of sudden we have plenty of guys bowling around 140k and one of them is good enough to be counted as one of quickest in world (umesh yadav ) . now look at ishant sharma this guy can bowl 150k on his day and now with rhythm lsot he is bowling 130k in any other country if there was pace drop like this he will be kicked out because there is no excuse in this case as he is young and can bowl quick so why not bowl quick ? its not like he bowling more consistently with pace down it just straight neglect of problem and nothing more IMO .. i always say if you can bowl well at 130 k then pace is no problem but when you can bowl at 140 k why ever slow down? its this basic attitude which is different between australia and fitness comes with will to improve..shami worked hard and got fit because he wanted to bowl quick not the other way around.. if he jsut wanted to bowl like before he would have never worked hard :winky:

Here is that article where he had accepted he had not worked hard enough earlier. http://www.wisdenindia.com/interview/havent-worked-hard-enough-shami/78137

[Old guy]

Pace was certainly a difference. Unadkat hardly troubled any batsman yesterday while Shami moved the ball both ways at around 140K. There was huge 15K of difference in pace of both bowlers from 125-140. Shami took them by surprise as they faced 130K or less pace whole series from most Indian pacers and did not Shami to be that quick and with pace' date=' he moved the ball in the air and off the seam. Vinay and Unadkat could not do anything even on a pitch where there was some help for them.[/quote'] i said that in context of how quickly they bowled in zimbabwe and not here obviously there was huge difference yesterday and shami easily out bowled everyone and pace was major factor. what i meant with that was when i think about shami (before this match ) and unadkat i thought shami was type of bowler who will hit 140k once in a while ..and one who is quicker than bhuvi about 5-6 kms more. unadkat tundlered here but in zimbabwe he looked like bowling around 135 k so pace wise before this match i did not think there was big difference that you will select one over other because of that. but shami increased pace and fitness while unadkat came back to his old self :giggle:

[Old guy]

Here is that article where he had accepted he had not worked hard enough earlier. http://www.wisdenindia.com/interview/havent-worked-hard-enough-shami/78137

already he looks to have better future than ishant because he did not blamed his luck,found the problem and worked hard on it

[rkt.india]

Varun was included after we went down 0 - 4 to England. Most of our pacers were either too slow or bowling 15 k slower than what they are capable of. The English were bowling way quicker than us. This lack of pace was thought to be one of the reasons for our horrible defeat. It was st that time that Aaron had bowled the 153 k delivery and was almost forced into the team by the selectors.Dhoni made him sit out quite a few matches in the ODIs even though we continued to lose in the ODIs. Then he finally got a chance, did decently - - better than the rest of the pacers . Then Umesh was introduced. Dhoni did not seem too keen on playing them. Basically, Umesh and Aaron were introducef in this backdrop of the worst series defeat in Dhoni's career till then and the extremely slow bowlers who contributed to it along with other factors.

And was also successful in Emerging Players Tournament in Australia played just before that ODI series in August.

[rkt.india]

I'm not saying that Dhoni isn't reluctant to play people without experience. I'm just trying to reason with the crazy people who say that Dhoni hates place bowlers with a serious passion and never wants to play them. If Dhoni didn't want them' date=' they wouldn't have come in.[/quote'] Dhoni thinks if you are slow, you are accurate and consistent. He always likes bowlers who can bowl economically and concentrate on line and length. His mantra in ODIs has always been choking the opposition and make them do mistakes, not attack and get wickets.

[rkt.india]

i said that in context of how quickly they bowled in zimbabwe and not here obviously there was huge difference yesterday and shami easily out bowled everyone and pace was major factor. what i meant with that was when i think about shami (before this match ) and unadkat i thought shami was type of bowler who will hit 140k once in a while ..and one who is quicker than bhuvi about 5-6 kms more. unadkat tundlered here but in zimbabwe he looked like bowling around 135 k so pace wise before this match i did not think there was big difference that you will select one over other because of that. but shami increased pace and fitness while unadkat came back to his old self :giggle:

Important thing is consistent pace. Shami's average pace in first 6 overs was 87 mph (140K) and ball was skidding of the surface. This was pretty much the kind of a spell he had bowled in Duleep trophy final 2 years back when playing his first Duleep trophy much and even that was because Nechim got injured in SF, he outbowled likes of Pankaj, Dinda, BK, Rituraj, Mohanty, pitched the ball up and seamed both ways.