daryl1985 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Well as someone who has been academically as well as athletically gifted I am in the best position to speak. Obviously the main problem is social factors that blacks will grow up in poverty and not be pushed through school' date= however I did read a study that the average IQ of a black african would be lower than a white person from western europe, not by a lot, but still lower. So there is probably a truth to the claim african black people are less intelligent. :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: One of your best ever posts.
Vijay.Sharma Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Well as someone who has been academically as well as athletically gifted I am in the best position to speak. Obviously the main problem is social factors that blacks will grow up in poverty and not be pushed through school' date=' however[b'] I did read a study that the average IQ of a black african would be lower than a white person from western europe, not by a lot, but still lower. So there is probably a truth to the claim african black people are less intelligent.Serani, I am not sure which study you are referring to but I am aware of one study that happened in the 60s-70s by some idiotic white biologist in the USA who claimed whites are more intelligent than blacks based on the fact that more whites than blacks made it to higher education, etc. The bastard quite clearly downplayed the finding that people of Indian origin were a whole millenium ahead of whites when it came to educational qualifications. As per his study Indians were top dog (as invincible as WI and Aus teams) followed by Mongoloids followed by whites followed by blacks. The problem in that study of "intelligence" was that the stupid idiot equated intelligence with educational qualification. It is no secret that majority of Indians who went to the USA went there for higher studies in the first place...so it is rather obvious that Indians would be top dog if you choose such a criteria..DUH! Here's the real "science" behind such phenomena - while physical characteristics are very much genetically decided (ex - color, height, weight, strength, etc), mental characteristics are usually a product of what we call epigenetics (?)...basically effects of environment on gene changes. So, intelligence or thinking ability is directly related to the environment in which the kid is brought up and has nothing to do with his parents genes as such. It has everything to do with how much his parents, teachers, friends, his environment encourages intelligent behavior. That is exactly why you see traditions of artisans developing in families. In arts, whether it be physical art or any other form, usually the finesse aspect is encouraged by the environment the child grows in. So an Indian kid who is born in a village is a thousand times better at weaving a basket than me or any of the ICF fellas kids living in the US or UK or Aus. Similarly you are just useless when it comes to catching a wild hog compared to a kid in an east african village. Bowling requires strength but generating pace is more of an art form which we still haven't cracked and Pakis seem to have cracked it whether by design or not. If physique was all that is required for fast bowling then Kieron Pollard would have bowled 150 kmph. If you look at all the genuine express bowlers in Test history, none of them were physically greatly built. Most of them started out as thin skinny lads but somehow had some essential traits coming together, for ex - muscle twitches, type of fibres, actions, delivery release, run ups, etc. Pace bowling is an art yet to be "scienced".
vvvslaxman Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Fast bowling -> Athleticism -> Indian race -> Education..guys relax. Take a step back. We are far away from the original issue thanks to Serani's over-generalization.
IKnowU Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 All the players from the western countries nurture and take care of their bodies from a very young age. Once they hit international cricket, their bodies are much more conditioned to go though the rigours on International cricket. They all hit the gym as soon as they can, do lot of conditioning and agility. That alone gives you a advantage over many players.
Tiger80 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Once again, where did I imply cricket is dead in Australia? I am starting to think you're a little thick to have a nuanced view of things. Do I have to do every little bit of thinking for you? Domestic cricket survives because it is subsidized by international cricket. Domestic cricket is not sustainable on its own, not in England and not in Australia. County games enjoy record crowds The County Championship saw a 30% increase from 2007, with 558,950 people attending matches. The expanded Twenty20 Cup was the most-watched competition with 593,317 coming through the turnstiles, an increase of 36% from the previous season. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/counties/7844911.stm A million people attending a county season is not a bad figure for domestic cricket if I leave twenty ,twenty out of it ,though I agree with your statement that domestic cricket require support of international cricket. Anyway my point was that speed is measured in domestic cricket in Australia and England Yet we see all speed records are from international cricket. If you've never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Except for the handful of forummers, not many even obsess over speed (before you misconstrue me again, I mean fans generally care more for skillful bowling, not merely pacy bowling). It doesn't even go as a statistical record in a player's record. You entire premise goes like, "I've never seen so it must not be". This topic is discussed many times and almost all agree that skillful bowling is more important ,but at the same time these bowlers should have weapon of faster delivery which none of Indian bowlers have
maniac Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 I am amazed at the racial profiling being done here.... It is only a myth or sterotype that Indians are not naturally athletic and at the same time it is another sterotype about black people not being smart Let me shift away from sports and give you an example:In U.S,Kids are taught music at a very young age...You would see almost every teenage white kid air strumming the guitar or has played some musical instrument at some level. where as in India, maybe times are changing now but back in my day when I wanted to learn Guitar or the Casio,my dad told me it is a waste of time and asked me to concentrate on studies I am sure many of my fellow posters have personally experienced or seen someone else in the situation,does this mean that white people are automatically better musicians than Indians. Similarly what's the deal about black people being bad in academics,I atleast know 3 african american people who are PHD's and there are scores of other examples in real life.The reason the misconception Indians are 'smarter' which means better education is because again going back to my above example that is what we are encouraged to do all our lives. Now coming back to cricket,in India first and foremost due to the heat you don't want to bowl or field rather you would stand out there batting and hit the fours and sixes. You go to a coaching school and the first thing they will start teaching you is the forward defence,no one will ask you to bowl or show off what skills you have. In late 80's to early 90's as a kid my role model was Kapil Dev but only part of it was due to his bowling ability,we loved him even more because of swashbuckling batting ability and then onwards our rolemodel has been sachin so technically we never had a bowling role model.There are various other such factors that contribute to indians not wanting to bowl fast.It is solely a cultural thing. Where as in Pak most of these bowlers or even batsmen come to the forefront due to talent scouts rather than a coaching academy or a school system-This statement is based on purely what I heard from various Pak cricketers interviews. There is a good chance you will always get a freakish talent or at times you might garbage who is just not good enough at the highest level.Going back to my above example probably every kid wanted to bowl phaast like Imran,W's,Shoaib or hit the ball like a beast(That expalins the lack of quality in their batting recently).Even look at their batsmen for eg;Younis Khan,Moyo they all have a little Javed Miandad in them to the way they approach their batting.
podi wije Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Could you please mention those bowlers name? If they have tearaway quicks then why they play crap bowler Kulasekara .The fact is they had their best medium fast bowler as Chaminda Vaas Apart from that they do not have any good medium fast or fast bowler in test cricket i mean bowlers who hits 140+ and sometimes 150.(not regular 150 bowlers though.)ravindra pushpakumara,prabath nissanka,nuwan zoysa,and nowdays dilhara,malinga,thushara(sometimes.),those are some names i can remember.sri lanka always had at least one in their team who capable of going pass 140.
podi wije Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 :hysterical: classic case of overestimating ur opposition hehe yeah i know.thats why i meant sometimes.i saw him hitting 140s in few matches.:D
vamos_rafa Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 dont laugh at serani he is special [ATTACH]1778[/ATTACH]
Vijay.Sharma Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 zoysa was no where near 140 let alone 150' date= he was same pace as prasad , some of the bowlers you mentioned did hav a bit of pace you can add even dhammika prasad ,eranga and lakmal to that list . but overall other than malinga & fernando most sl are similar to ind bowlers in terms of speed . p.s- nuwan pradeep too is supposed to be similar pace to mailinga but is yet to make his debutI seem to remember Zoysa differently...maybe you are confusing zoysa with some other leftie. Zoysa was at least 10 kmph quicker than Prasad and Prasad bowled at 130-132
rkt.india Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 I seem to remember Zoysa differently...maybe you are confusing zoysa with some other leftie. Zoysa was at least 10 kmph quicker than Prasad and Prasad bowled at 130-132 No you are wrong...Zoysa rarely went over 130K. Mostly 120-130K. He is a gentle giant.
vamos_rafa Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 I seem to remember Zoysa differently...maybe you are confusing zoysa with some other leftie. Zoysa was at least 10 kmph quicker than Prasad and Prasad bowled at 130-132 Nopes never. Zoysa was not an out an out quickie. He was more like Cameroon Cuffy, hugely built but could never bowl fast.
Vijay.Sharma Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 No you are wrong...Zoysa rarely went over 130K. Mostly 120-130K. He is a gentle giant.Alright, maybe I have him confused with someone else.
Rahul Dravid Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 very stupid excuse by zaheer. and common bs from serani.
CG Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 What zaheer really wanted to say was his body is not meant to bowl fast .
rkt.india Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 What zaheer really wanted to say was his body is not meant to bowl fast . I tell you problems in India with fast bowlers. The biggest problem is lack of work ethic and working on fitness. Look at Zaheer himself, he has been overweight since ages but playing and getting injured in every series. But second problem is even bigger that is mentality regarding fast bowling. Firstly we do not have fast bowlers who can bowl fast, they try but does not have it in them to bowl fast, Vinays, Narwals, Unadkats, Aravinds, Pankaj, Praveen come in this category. Then there are bowlers who do not want to bowl fast because of lack of work ethic and fitness. These kind of bowlers are happy what they are doing. RPs, Munaf's come in this category. These 2 category bowlers play most of the match and they are sure shot whenever the get selected they will be played even after getting thrashing after thrashing and bowling without any venom. Then we have bowlers who can bowl fast and want to bowl fast but our captain is resisted to play them because he says they do not have line and length. But Kaun samjhaye hamare kaptaan ko ke pace and line and length do not come together. A genuine pacer will always err in his line and lengths, but as he gets exposure he can rattle best of the batsmen with his pace and can be an impact bowler especially in Test matches in any condition. Our captain does not think that even our line and length bowlers are not bowling line and lengths then what is the benefit of that so called line and length. This thing is not just there in our national team. It is there at all levels of cricket. Even at our local club practice session bowlers are scolded whenever they try to bowl fast and err in line length. This attitude does not let them go for pace and develop their fast twitch fibers and instead they try to bowl line and length at a slower pace. Fast twitch fibers develop from young age and only when kids try to use them in bowling fast, they develop fast, but if they dont use them, they dont develop.
div Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Zaheer Khan is a poor athlete.But Umesh Yadav,Sreesanth etc have better bodies
vamos_rafa Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Zaheer Khan is a poor athlete.But Umesh Yadav' date='Sreesanth etc have better bodies[/quote'] Sreesanth, now is also showing signs of being overweight.
rkt.india Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Sreesanth' date=' now is also showing signs of being overweight.[/quote'] Whatever body some one has whether it is athletic or not every one needs to put hard yards in the gym and on field working on fitness and stamina. Sreesanth is lacking that. Umesh yadav has worked on it well and has very good body and is athletic. He was originally an athlete before took up to cricket for full time.
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