Dravid, Kumble fail to find place in dream team

[SightForTheGods]

Old does not always mean gold...Just cuz they are old they think they are more experienced and know the game inside out...Some players like Dravid have played 300+ games and have went through more Cricket and are possibly better. As for Azar, I used to be his fan till the match-fixing...How can you support someone who is willing to let your team and country down cuz of money.

[gator]

everyone has written enuf about dravid and kumble's case.... but facking Mankad over Sehwag, who is prolly one of the top 5 greatest test openers in my book???? Retards... he has dominated and whipped every opposition into submission both home and away.... WTF...

[CC1981]

who is prolly one of the top 5 greatest test openers in my book????

Your book is simple number crunching without context and anything sensible to do with cricket mate! Cricket is a team game- team balance & functionality is a lot more important. :haha::haha:

[Ram]

Your book is simple number crunching without context and anything sensible to do with cricket mate! Cricket is a team game- team balance & functionality is a lot more important. :haha::haha:

What kind of team balance is it , that doesnt allow probably your second best test opener ( after Gavaskar) to be picked in the team ? I would rather call it team Imbalance then. Sehwag , at his best , has murdered test attacks into submission. Their test records arent even worth comparing , so i am refraining from putting the stats i saw for the 2 players in statsguru.

[CC1981]

Sehwag , at his best , has murdered test attacks into submission

Sehwag at his best has batted on very few bouncy & pacy wickets of the 80s/90s quality. Reasons for including Mankad over Sehwag has been provided already. As i said, comparing records are irrelevant- for one, one is an allrounder, for two, eras are too far apart. For three, keep in mind the opener i picked is pretty competent at opening. And for four, stop this end-all-be-all fixation on numbers. Numbers are relevant to a point. A team picked purely on statistical basis is as irrelevant to cricket as it gets. Cricket teams are about contingencies, balance, unique abilities etc. built into one- not an army of statistically best batsmen & bowlers from vastly different eras compiled. People who do so know very little about cricket IMO and have very little idea about strategic thinking or the overall picture. And i'd rather have depth in batting & bowling than accomodate an inconsistant batsman like Sehwag. Sehwag hasnt done enough to merit inclusion in an alltime indian XI yet. You are free to chose your own XI but in my opinion, my XI is pretty close to competetiveness. 4 bowlers is simply not enough to have and Sehwag's inclusion harms the team overall more than it benifits IMO.

[CC1981]

As for Azar, I used to be his fan till the match-fixing...How can you support someone who is willing to let your team and country down cuz of money.

Don't care. My team puts ability & utlility first and foremost. Not interested in politics of cricket or stuff- only interested in ability. Its just a sport.

[Ram]

4 of your BEST EVER bowlers are not enough to bowl out a team twice in a match , dont you think ? Sehwag is inconsistent ? you gotto be kidding me ! Mankad averages a crappy 24,20 and 19 against Aus , Pak and West Indies. "Sehwag at his best has batted on very few bouncy & pacy wickets of the 80s/90s quality." So did Mankad. FYI , only 6 of his 44 matches were away from home and all of then were in England ! When you pick an all time eleven , you pick the best openers you have , not some stupid comprimise.

[CC1981]

4 of your BEST EVER bowlers are not enough to bowl out a team twice in a match , dont you think ?

No. Four bowlers is a bit too risky when facing an alltime callibre batting lineup- one bowler having an off day means you are essentially down to a 3-man attack. I believe almost every other alltime XI will have atleast 5 great/good bowlers in it so India's gotto do that as well,particularly since our bowling attack is not going to be as penetrative as the alltime Aussie, West Indies, Pakistani, South African & English bowling attack. But the batting lineup is amongst the best of them in terms of class, versatality & depth.

Sehwag is inconsistent ? you gotto be kidding me !

He has only 23 fifty+ scores in 85 innings. Yes, that is inconsistent. I dont care about an opener scoring a mammoth 200 in an alltime great lineup- i already have an alltime great middle order and i am not going with an inconsistent opener,particularly when i have to give up an opener who is no more inconsistent and brings much better bowling and fielding skills to the fore.

So did Mankad. FYI , only 6 of his 44 matches were away from home and all of then were in England !

Two words : Uncovered pitches. Uncovered pitches were far harder to bat on than covered pitches -bouncy wicket or not. Not only do uncovered pitches can play massively diffrent from day-to-day, it gets extremely uneven as the match progresses.

you pick the best openers you have , not some stupid comprimise.

Disagree. Overall team strength is more important. 41 average as opener on uncovered wickets + one of the greatest left arm slow bowlers in cricket's history > a huge-scoring but inconsistent opener against some of the worst quality of bowling in cricket's history. Better fielder to boot as well!

[coffee_rules]

GRV in the selection panel included himself. Otherwise on consistency he ranks way below Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly and even Ravi Shastri

[Predator_05]

Prasanna also singled out leg-spinner Subash Gupte for special praise. "I don't think cricket will ever see a bowler like Gupte. You may see Prasanna' date=' Bedi, Chandrasekhar, Venkataraghavan and Shane Warne."[/quote'] I just missed this. "You may see another Shane Warne ?" LMFAO. Prasanna is senile.

[The Outsider]

This has got to be one of the funniest jokes I have read.

[dial_100]

At his best is a very very funny term used as a fashion. At his best, Afridi has scored 50 runs in just 17 balls....Cricket is not about at his best, its about almost everytime....A guy who can score 100s and can be seen getting out pathetically million times. That means we have to literally pray that he plays his best game. SORRY... I dont rate sehwag that high. Not in test. And I dont agree with any team that does not include Dravid. If I were to chose 2 out of 3 (SRT, Dravid and SMG), I will chose Dravid first and then toss coin to select 1 between two Ss.

[Lurker]

I can understand Mankad and i'd right now put Mankad as the opener ahead of Sehwag or V.Manjrekar(was he the opener ? cant remember). Mankad IMO was a seriously underrated allrounder- had some seriously 'Botham-esque' matches and IMO, he is one of the best SLA bowler the world has seen- after Bedi & Underwood, i'd put Mankad as the best ever slow left arm bowler.

To put Vinoo Mankad ahead of Vijay Merchant is ridiculous to say the least. Vijay Merchant is one of the greatest bats we produced and pound for pound for the best opener and that includes a certain Sunil Gavaskar. The difference between a Merchant and a Sunny of course is the sheer longevity the latter had. But is it Merchant's fault that he lost his best part of life to WWII? His First class record remains as second greatest of all times, second only to Don. His Test stats are highly impressive with average around 48 with no Not outs. Performed in India as well as abroad and remains the only player, as far as I can fathom, who scored in every series at a higher average than the previous one. There is no way Vinoo Mankad can overshadow Vijay Merchant. xxx

[Holysmoke]

Anyone who doesnt put RSD in an all time India XI is bonkers. One of the best #3's in the game, ever. I would put only the Don and Ponting over him.

[the_samrat]

Indeed...:haha: Anyone who leaves out Dravid and Kumble from an all-time Indian XI has no f*cking clue.

Vishwanath was a better batsman, than Dravid. He played the best of bowling attacks with ease. Dravid is an outstanding player but he never really faced quality attacks in the last 8~ years or so. Kumble's decision is probably b/c of his away-bowling average...but its still hard to back-up.

[Predator_05]

Vishwanath was a better batsman, than Dravid. He played the best of bowling attacks with ease. Dravid is an outstanding player but he never really faced quality attacks in the last 8~ years or so. Kumble's decision is probably b/c of his away-bowling average...but its still hard to back-up.

Interesting. I do agree with you that Dravid hasn't faced too many top class bowling attacks during this decade (compared to say, Tendulkar). The best bowling attack he faced was McGrath, Fleming, Lee and Warne during the '99/00 tour of AUS, but back then he was still developing as a player. I'll take your word on Vishwanath (i've never watched him play), but statistically you can't overlook Dravid. An average of 60 is an average of 60, and Dravid has maintained it for a number of years now - that takes some doing. Let's not forget the fact that Dravid has been instrumental in scripting India's most memorable test victories, especially away from home. That solidifies his position in the all-time Indian XI, because no other Indian batsman (regardless of batting ability) has made as profound an impact by altering the perception of Indian cricket as he has. Those of us who remember the days when India would collapse year after year on overseas tours will happily acknowledge this. Kumble is another easy inclusion because he has won more Test matches for India than any other bowler. Sure, he was useless away from home (name an Indian spinner who wasn't) for most of his career but his transformation in recent years cannot be neglected. In the last 30 years, no other leg-spinner has recorded better figures in Australia during the course of the one series...and that is just one example of how much he has improved. If he retires today, my lasting memory will be of a spinner who could win matches for India anywhere in the world.

[Lurker]

I just missed this. "You may see another Shane Warne ?" LMFAO. Prasanna is senile.

Actually Prasanna may have a point here. Gupte was a superb spinner of the ball and his only criticism is that he was too attacking, which would probably explain his average close to 30. However such a good spinner he was that he rarely ever needed any help from the wicket(which should put him clearly ahead of most Indian greats). He was greatly consistent against every side of his time and it would be hard to pick a side against whom he flopped. It would be even harder to pick a place where he didnt spin the ball. Sobers obviously rates him as greatest spinner ever but what gets forgotten is what he had mentioned after the fact, "Gupte could spin the ball on glass". We sure havent seen a Gupte(from India or outside) in past 50 years or so after him so Prasanna is not entirely wrong. xxx

[beetle]

sabne milkar ek doosre ko shush kar diya....people like Dravid and Kumble don't need some senile greats to rate them!

[The Outsider]

148 & 81 against Donald, Pollock, Klusner, McMillan @ Johannesburg 180 against McGrath, Gillespie, Kasprowich, Warne @ Calcutta 148 against Hoggard, Caddick @ a minefield in Headingly are as good innings as any you would have seen from Viswanath.

[yoda]

Dravid are Kumble are in a league of their own. They are too consistent and too professional to be in that list. Good idea to leave them out.