Dhoni and contemporary wicketkeepers

[Manny_Pacquiao]

dhoni is an average test batsman. i don't see how this innings 'redeems' him at all. we all know he can make hundreds when the score is 400/5. he has done that many times. maybe one day he will play a big innings when india actually needs him to.

[Ram]

144 off 175, 9 fours and 5 sixes. :yay: Looks like MSD has redeemed himself and silenced his critics.

Whatchu talking about? :headshake: Did you not know? This test series was DhoniÃÔ last chance. The selectors were this close to dropping him after the disastrous England tour, according to a few ÁÑundits here.

[Aaku]

Whatchu talking about? :headshake: Did you not know? This test series was DhoniÃÔ last chance. The selectors were this close to dropping him after the disastrous England tour' date= according to a few ÁÑundits here.

copy paste :hmmm:

[Ram]

copy paste :hmmm:

No. :headshake:

[ganeshran]

Dhoni has an akward foot movement and a dominant bottomhand - both of which make it very difficult for him to be an accomplished test batsmen in the longer run. However all his replacement keepers are poorer test caliber batsmen. He can play handy knocks coming at the end of an innings which isnt very big a worry if our number 3,4 and 5 batsmen provide a decent foundation. The good thing about Dhoni is that he looks much more comfortable after spending some time at the crease, just like he did today.

[vamos_rafa]

Dhoni has an akward foot movement and a dominant bottomhand - both of which make it very difficult for him to be an accomplished test batsmen in the longer run. However all his replacement keepers are poorer test caliber batsmen. He can play handy knocks coming at the end of an innings which isnt very big a worry if our number 3,4 and 5 batsmen provide a decent foundation. The good thing about Dhoni is that he looks much more comfortable after spending some time at the crease, just like he did today.

But one thing is MSD has a decent enough technique to play well on the bouncier tracks.

[The Outsider]

dhoni is an average test batsman. i don't see how this innings 'redeems' him at all. we all know he can make hundreds when the score is 400/5. he has done that many times. maybe one day he will play a big innings when india actually needs him to.

Exactly. Everyone knows he is the king of FTBs. Give him a flat track and/or a soft opposition with a scoreline of 300/5 and more often than not he will massacre them. The question about his ability to perform in difficult situations remain open. Combine that with his average keeping skills and he still does justify a spot in the side, but not as some star in the lineup - rather as a good player playing because there are no better alternatives. Saha is one, but it's not going to happen. As for captaincy, I've said many times it's one of the most overrated aspects of cricket - "Dhoni won us the World Cup, Imran won us the World Cup". LOL! If Dhoni is such a great captain why did India get whitewashed in England? Right, because a captain can only do so much. He is a good captain, but the entire weight given to captaincy is exaggerated. Indian team's success was built around Zaheer and the batting line up - once they faltered there is nothing any captain can do. Similarly, if they are in form then the team is a world beater regardless who is captaining.

[BeautifulGame]

Exactly. Everyone knows he is the king of FTBs. Give him a flat track and/or a soft opposition with a scoreline of 300/5 and more often than not he will massacre them. The question about his ability to perform in difficult situations remain open. Combine that with his average keeping skills and he still does justify a spot in the side, but not as some star in the lineup - rather as a good player playing because there are no better alternatives. Saha is one, but it's not going to happen. As for captaincy, I've said many times it's one of the most overrated aspects of cricket - "Dhoni won us the World Cup, Imran won us the World Cup". LOL! If Dhoni is such a great captain why did India get whitewashed in England? Right, because a captain can only do so much. He is a good captain, but the entire weight given to captaincy is exaggerated. Indian team's success was built around Zaheer and the batting line up - once they faltered there is nothing any captain can do. Similarly, if they are in form then the team is a world beater regardless who is captaining.

Apart from Gilcrist no Wicket keeper has performed in difficult situations away from home consistently and even Gilly struggled in Inida and England.The only other i think of is Stewart and he often relinquished wicket keeping duties in tests because he cant score consistently. U are basically asking a Dhoni to do pure Batsmen's job which no other WK apart from Gilly has done ever consistently. Also Dhoni has played vital knocks away from home under difficult situations even if they arent big centuries.His partnership with laxman in Perth , His partnership with Bhajji in Newzealand and his match saving knock against England in 1st test in 2007.Thats probably more than all other Indian wks put together have done in recent memory.

[gaurav92]

Exactly. Everyone knows he is the king of FTBs. Give him a flat track and/or a soft opposition with a scoreline of 300/5 and more often than not he will massacre them. The question about his ability to perform in difficult situations remain open. Combine that with his average keeping skills and he still does justify a spot in the side, but not as some star in the lineup - rather as a good player playing because there are no better alternatives. Saha is one, but it's not going to happen. As for captaincy, I've said many times it's one of the most overrated aspects of cricket - "Dhoni won us the World Cup, Imran won us the World Cup". LOL! If Dhoni is such a great captain why did India get whitewashed in England? Right, because a captain can only do so much. He is a good captain, but the entire weight given to captaincy is exaggerated. Indian team's success was built around Zaheer and the batting line up - once they faltered there is nothing any captain can do. Similarly, if they are in form then the team is a world beater regardless who is captaining.

Exactly my thoughts. Top post yet again Outy :hatsoff:

[gaurav92]

Apart from Gilcrist no Wicket keeper has performed in difficult situations away from home consistently and even Gilly struggled in Inida and England.The only other i think of is Stewart and he often relinquished wicket keeping duties in tests because he cant score consistently. U are basically asking a Dhoni to do pure Batsmen's job which no other WK apart from Gilly has done ever consistently. Also Dhoni has played vital knocks away from home under difficult situations even if they arent big centuries.His partnership with laxman in Perth , His partnership with Bhajji in Newzealand and his match saving knock against England in 1st test in 2007.Thats probably more than all other Indian wks put together have done in recent memory.

Thats what the whole point comes down to. We don't have any better alternatives as replacements for Dhoni. In his career, he might have played a few good knocks here and there,but that doesn't discount the fact that he still is an FTB and scores most of his runs when the stage is set for him.

[The Outsider]

Apart from Gilcrist no Wicket keeper has performed in difficult situations away from home consistently and even Gilly struggled in Inida and England.

I agree, but Gilchrist was a superb keeper as well. Dhoni is average. Gilchrist could have made the Australian team as a specialist keeper or a specialist batsman. Dhoni can do neither - there are better keepers and better batsmen in the Indian cricketing setup.

[gaurav92]

Dinesh Kartik is a better batsman but a fail keeper. Same for Parthiv. Saha on the other hand is a good keeper and a fail batsman. We don't have anyone better than Dhoni as of now

[Yoda-esque]

Dinesh Kartik is a better batsman but a fail keeper. Same for Parthiv. Saha on the other hand is a good keeper and a fail batsman. We don't have anyone better than Dhoni as of now

Dhoni isnt a bad keeper and hes a decent bat and a good captain. Best option for now.

[gaurav92]

Let us see in Australia.

[The Outsider]

Dinesh Kartik is a better batsman but a fail keeper. Same for Parthiv. Saha on the other hand is a good keeper and a fail batsman. We don't have anyone better than Dhoni as of now

How is Saha a fail batsman? Yeah, he doesn't "look" as promising as Dhoni and certainly doesn't have the shot making ability of Dhoni, but from whatever little I've seen of him he does have a compact technique, and of course he is the better keeper. He averages around 42 in FC as well as List A matches. His FC average is in the league of Yuvraj and Raina.

[daryl1985]

Exactly. Everyone knows he is the king of FTBs. Give him a flat track and/or a soft opposition with a scoreline of 300/5 and more often than not he will massacre them. The question about his ability to perform in difficult situations remain open. Combine that with his average keeping skills and he still does justify a spot in the side, but not as some star in the lineup - rather as a good player playing because there are no better alternatives. Saha is one, but it's not going to happen. As for captaincy, I've said many times it's one of the most overrated aspects of cricket - "Dhoni won us the World Cup, Imran won us the World Cup". LOL! If Dhoni is such a great captain why did India get whitewashed in England? Right, because a captain can only do so much. He is a good captain, but the entire weight given to captaincy is exaggerated. Indian team's success was built around Zaheer and the batting line up - once they faltered there is nothing any captain can do. Similarly, if they are in form then the team is a world beater regardless who is captaining.

There is no doubt about it, he is a superb captain. His achievements as captain may have been exaggerated by other fans but he has done some great things. He helped us win the 2007 T20 world cup with a fairly average squad. In the 2008 Border-Gavaskar trophy we won 2-0 (the victories came in the 2 tests that he was captain). He has won the IPL twice with Chennai (his field placing to get Pollard out in the 2010 final was a masterstroke). The England tour was a shambles from start to finish. Sehwag missed the 1st two tests (and wasn't 100% fit in the other 2 tests), Zak broke down on the 1st day of the 1st test. Tendulkar suddenly lost form (maybe he was injured), Gambhir kept picking up niggles throughout the tour and i think Ishant was constantly troubled by his ankle problem. Everything that could go wrong on that tour did. Also the World Cup win had always been the main goal for India (under Dhoni and Kirsten). After we won the World Cup, i think some players eased off and we had to deal with a new coach. In England we came up against a team whose main goal (for the last 2-3 years) was to become the best test team in the world and they were simply too good for us.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

If Dhoni is such a great captain why did India get whitewashed in England? Right' date=' because a captain can only do so much. He is a good captain, but the entire weight given to captaincy is exaggerated. Indian team's success was built around Zaheer and the batting line up - once they faltered there is nothing any captain can do. Similarly, if they are in form then the team is a world beater regardless who is captaining.[/quote'] very true, but in situations like that, some good captaincy can make a difference. it wasnt there in england, or even in south afrika earlier in the year. i am so sick to death of this whole 'captain cool' myth. he is such a defensive captain at times, and yesterday was a good example. 400 run lead, and he still spreads the field out in an attempt to stop the runs when the batsmen show a bit of fight. i would say it's reasonable to keep attacking when you have a 400 run lead, but in the world of 'captain cool' this isnt plausible. i am just hoping zaheer comes back soon so he can go back to delegating the responsibilities for setting the field and instructing bowlers. his form of captaincy is perfectly suited to the ODI game, but he doesn't havea good reading of the game in tests.

[Number]

There is no doubt about it, he is a superb captain. His achievements as captain may have been exaggerated by other fans but he has done some great things. He helped us win the 2007 T20 world cup with a fairly average squad. In the 2008 Border-Gavaskar trophy we won 2-0 (the victories came in the 2 tests that he was captain). He has won the IPL twice with Chennai (his field placing to get Pollard out in the 2010 final was a masterstroke). The England tour was a shambles from start to finish. Sehwag missed the 1st two tests (and wasn't 100% fit in the other 2 tests), Zak broke down on the 1st day of the 1st test. Tendulkar suddenly lost form (maybe he was injured), Gambhir kept picking up niggles throughout the tour and i think Ishant was constantly troubled by his ankle problem. Everything that could go wrong on that tour did. Also the World Cup win had always been the main goal for India (under Dhoni and Kirsten). After we won the World Cup, i think some players eased off and we had to deal with a new coach. In England we came up against a team whose main goal (for the last 2-3 years) was to become the best test team in the world and they were simply too good for us.

Even on this England tour he was our 3rd best batsman after Dravid and Sachin(avg. 34 - Dhoni 32). Previous England tour he averaged 50+ . In SA he did better than Dravid and Sehwag . In NZ he averaged 75+ . I agree his technique is quite poor for seaming conditions , but even after that he has ability to play 2-3 good innings on a very difficult tour.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

Even on this England tour he was our 3rd best batsman after Dravid and Sachin(avg. 34 - Dhoni 32). Previous England tour he averaged 50+ . In SA he did better than Dravid and Sehwag . In NZ he averaged 75+ . I agree his technique is quite poor for seaming conditions , but even after that he has ability to play 2-3 good innings on a very difficult tour.

dont look at the averages, look at the way he bats. the guy wouldnt last against a good bowling attack overseas. just isnt cut out to be a successful test player. in this day and age, he can average close to 40, but that's as good as he will ever get. its a joke to even compare him to guys like dravid and sehwag, those guys have made big runs outside the subcontinent.

[daryl1985]

dont look at the averages, look at the way he bats. the guy wouldnt last against a good bowling attack overseas. just isnt cut out to be a successful test player. in this day and age, he can average close to 40, but that's as good as he will ever get. its a joke to even compare him to guys like dravid and sehwag, those guys have made big runs outside the subcontinent.

Exactly he should be compared to the likes of Saha, Dinesh Karthik and Parthiv Patel.