Drop Ishant Sharma

[Dravid_TheWall]

Look, I don't think you, I, or any of us at ICF are really in a position to talk about who puts in how much effort...we just dont know. All we see is the outcome. If you are telling me that you believe Sreesanth or for that matter any national player does not work his ass off to get selected, stay in the team and play then, using Ian Chappell's newly coined phrase, "I have a rewarding Nigerian investment opportunity you'd be interested in." So let's please not go around town claiming that this guy works hard and that guy dunn. Each of those buggers put hard yards in. What they are doing may not be effective but please don't slander them on their effort. I have played group level cricket in the 90s and I know how much work even a half committed player like me puts in Age is no criteria once you enter the men's game. A sixteen year old Sachin was greeted with a bouncer and a 20 year old LS was dropped for good once he stopped performing. Let's not talk too much about the age. If he is in the national team he is there by merit not because of his age or what he can be in 4 years time after he grows pubic hair. Ishant has potential but I am afraid he is being blooded too early for his own good. He is yet to learn his art in the domestic level and I think he needs 2-3 good, hard Ranji seasons. I am not saying Sreesanth must be in the team either. But I am saying that I will definitely find it very unconvincing to play Ishant ahead of Sreesanth. I'd like to give Sreesanth a final go (because I am a fan of what he is capable of) but I am OK if he is not given that final go and instead India move on to others like Varun Aaron, Umesh Yadav, etc. But Ishant ahead of Sreesanth is not very justified right now.

The sheep on here will only agree once cricinfo publishes a worrying article about Ishant like they did with Bhajji. It is good we are trying other seamers out like yadav, but I can't see how someone who has played for 4 whole years and delivers so little, has a guaranteed place. Doesn't make sense to me how Ishant does. This "age" of Ishant and "hardwork" really makes me laugh. A stint in county or ranji for ishant will help him and that will help team india. We are team India fans first, not individual players.

[saneindian]

The sheep on here will only agree once cricinfo publishes a worrying article about Ishant like they did with Bhajji. It is good we are trying other seamers out like yadav, but I can't see how someone who has played for 4 whole years and delivers so little, has a guaranteed place. Doesn't make sense to me how Ishant does. This "age" of Ishant and "hardwork" really makes me laugh. A stint in county or ranji for ishant will help him and that will help team india. We are team India fans first, not individual players.

Despite being 6 years younger to Sree, Ishant has the same number of first class wickets, at a better average. Sree had a stint in county cricket, yet has regressed as a bowler and to top it all was berated by his bowling coach at the county for having poor work ethic.. He has hardly played Ranji trophy either, again getting criticised by his home association for his callous attitude. Sree also preferred to go for some tamasha tournament named Titans of Cricket instead of a stint at NCA. Ishant on the other hand, has played for Delhi at every available opportunity. In fact, the improved pace and increased umber of wickets ths year is primarily due to the work he did after being dropped from the national side. BTW if Sree had remained fit, level headed and fulfilled the early promise he had shown in 2006, we would not have seen Ishant being rushed into international cricket in 2007-08.

[Number]

Despite being 6 years younger to Sree, Ishant has the same number of first class wickets, at a better average. Sree had a stint in county cricket, yet has regressed as a bowler and to top it all was berated by his bowling coach at the county for having poor work ethic.. He has hardly played Ranji trophy either, again getting criticised by his home association for his callous attitude. Sree also preferred to go for some tamasha tournament named Titans of Cricket instead of a stint at NCA. Ishant on the other hand, has played for Delhi at every available opportunity. In fact, the improved pace and increased umber of wickets ths year is primarily due to the work he did after being dropped from the national side. BTW if Sree had remained fit, level headed and fulfilled the early promise he had shown in 2006, we would not have seen Ishant being rushed into international cricket in 2007-08.

Leaving aside their domestic circuit preferences , attitude , work ethic and potential in which Sree is a big zero in front of Ishant. Just by following their intl performances we can see Ishant is a much much better bowler than Sreesanth. Only a blindly obsessed fan of Sree can deny that.

[deathmonger]

Leaving aside their domestic circuit preferences ' date=' attitude , work ethic and potential in which Sree is a big zero in front of Ishant. Just by following their intl performances we can see Ishant is a much much better bowler than Sreesanth. Only a blindly obsessed fan of Sree can deny that.[/quote'] or Sree himself posting under the name of Rahul Dravid.:cantstop:

[rkt.india]

Look, I don't think you, I, or any of us at ICF are really in a position to talk about who puts in how much effort...we just dont know. All we see is the outcome. If you are telling me that you believe Sreesanth or for that matter any national player does not work his ass off to get selected, stay in the team and play then, using Ian Chappell's newly coined phrase, "I have a rewarding Nigerian investment opportunity you'd be interested in." So let's please not go around town claiming that this guy works hard and that guy dunn. Each of those buggers put hard yards in. What they are doing may not be effective but please don't slander them on their effort. I have played group level cricket in the 90s and I know how much work even a half committed player like me puts in.

You are talking some rubbish here. If singing songs, dancing in shows, making music band is hard work in cricket than what should I say. Sreesanth does these things rather be in NCA or playing for his state team. You saw how he came to England. He has not had played much. How he was struggling with his stamina. If he was even half committed, he would have done better. Effort thing is obvious between the two. Don't forget Ishant already has over 100 test wickets at the age 22. How many fast bowlers you can find who had that stats? He already has 2 MOS in just 30 odd matches. How many Kapil, Srinath, Zak had even playing for more than a decade? His average in India was 28 before first test against WI. How many Indian fast bowlers as better average than him? You are right age is not any criteria and he was blooded early when he was 18 but not now. He has learned and improved a lot since then and we neither have any option then nor now. If we had any better bowlers than him, than he would have been playing and I do not think Sreesanth is better bowler than him. Sreesanth's time has gone. He is already 29. If he had to show what he is capable of, he could have done it by now. I will never pick a guy who has no commitment to the game he plays. And I really do not understand why you are saying Ishant ahead of Sreesanth is not justified. What Sreesanth has done to be in the team. I really do not understand how people can even compare Ishant to Sreeshanth.

[Chandan]

You are talking some rubbish here. If singing songs, dancing in shows, making music band is hard work in cricket than what should I say. Sreesanth does these things rather be in NCA or playing for his state team. You saw how he came to England. He has not had played much. How he was struggling with his stamina. If he was even half committed, he would have done better. Effort thing is obvious between the two. Don't forget Ishant already has over 100 test wickets at the age 22. How many fast bowlers you can find who had that stats? He already has 2 MOS in just 30 odd matches. How many Kapil, Srinath, Zak had even playing for more than a decade? His average in India was 28 before first test against WI. How many Indian fast bowlers as better average than him? You are right age is not any criteria and he was blooded early when he was 18 but not now. He has learned and improved a lot since then and we neither have any option then nor now. If we had any better bowlers than him, than he would have been playing and I do not think Sreesanth is better bowler than him. Sreesanth's time has gone. He is already 29. If he had to show what he is capable of, he could have done it by now. I will never pick a guy who has no commitment to the game he plays. And I really do not understand why you are saying Ishant ahead of Sreesanth is not justified. What Sreesanth has done to be in the team. I really do not understand how people can even compare Ishant to Sreeshanth.

So very true! How many seamers in India have taken 125 wickets? Can you please enlist, for all these guys who want Ishant to be dropped?

[Trichromatic]

So very true! How many seamers in India have taken 125 wickets? Can you please enlist, for all these guys who want Ishant to be dropped?

Kapil Dev Zaheer Khan Srinath Kapil Dev took 125 wickets in 32 matches at avg of 26. Zaheer Khan took 125 wickets in 43 matches at avg of 36. Srinath took 125 wickets in 36 matches at avg of 31. Ishant has 125 wickets in 39 matches at avg of 35.

[rkt.india]

Kapil Dev Zaheer Khan Srinath Kapil Dev took 125 wickets in 32 matches at avg of 26. Zaheer Khan took 125 wickets in 43 matches at avg of 36. Srinath took 125 wickets in 36 matches at avg of 31. Ishant has 125 wickets in 39 matches at avg of 35.

So he is the fourth best fast bowler India have ever produced.

[Trichromatic]

So he is the fourth best fast bowler India have ever produced.

Is he better than Zaheer of first 40-45 matches?

[rkt.india]

Is he better than Zaheer of first 40-45 matches?

I would say yes...He is better than what Zaheer was at the similar stage .

[Cricket Tragic]

Look' date=' I don't think you, I, or any of us at ICF are really in a position to talk about who puts in how much effort...we just dont know. All we see is the outcome. If you are telling me that you believe Sreesanth or for that matter any national player does not work his ass off to get selected, stay in the team and play then,[b'] using Ian Chappell's newly coined phrase, "I have a rewarding Nigerian investment opportunity you'd be interested in." So let's please not go around town claiming that this guy works hard and that guy dunn. Each of those buggers put hard yards in. What they are doing may not be effective but please don't slander them on their effort. I have played group level cricket in the 90s and I know how much work even a half committed player like me puts in Age is no criteria once you enter the men's game. A sixteen year old Sachin was greeted with a bouncer and a 20 year old LS was dropped for good once he stopped performing. Let's not talk too much about the age. If he is in the national team he is there by merit not because of his age or what he can be in 4 years time after he grows pubic hair. Ishant has potential but I am afraid he is being blooded too early for his own good. He is yet to learn his art in the domestic level and I think he needs 2-3 good, hard Ranji seasons. I am not saying Sreesanth must be in the team either. But I am saying that I will definitely find it very unconvincing to play Ishant ahead of Sreesanth. I'd like to give Sreesanth a final go (because I am a fan of what he is capable of) but I am OK if he is not given that final go and instead India move on to others like Varun Aaron, Umesh Yadav, etc. But Ishant ahead of Sreesanth is not very justified right now.

It's not new and Chappell didn't come up with it.

[Chandan]

Kapil Dev Zaheer Khan Srinath Kapil Dev took 125 wickets in 32 matches at avg of 26. Zaheer Khan took 125 wickets in 43 matches at avg of 36. Srinath took 125 wickets in 36 matches at avg of 31. Ishant has 125 wickets in 39 matches at avg of 35.

And he is youngest to have played 39 matches. None of them had played 39 tests till they were 22 years. So just be praiseworthy of the youngest and 4th most successful seamer of India. He'll certainly go a long way ahead!

[vvvslaxman]

Sreesanth has become a doofus. But i won't say he was completely worthless. He has repeatedly dismissed some genuinely good top order batsmen. 71% (62 out of 87 wickets) of Sreesanth's wickets are top 5 batsmen in an innings. But he always gave an impression that he was never going to go to next level. Amla 6 times ABDV 5 times, G Smith 5 times Kevin pietersen 5 times Kallis 4 times Collingwood 4 times Sarwan 4 times Strauss 3 times Gayle 3 times Bell 3 times Lara 2 times

[vvvslaxman]

But in my view both Ishant, Sreesanth never look like leader of a bowling unit. At no point they gave that impression. They will at best act as support bowlers. That is the problem with Indian bowling. Everyone looks like support bowlers. Kapil, Srinath later Zaheer genuinely led from the front more than one occasion with reasonable consistency.

[rkt.india]

Sreesanth has become a doofus. But i won't say he was completely worthless. He has repeatedly dismissed some genuinely good top order batsmen. 71% (62 out of 87 wickets) of Sreesanth's wickets are top 5 batsmen in an innings. But he always gave an impression that he was never going to go to next level. Amla 6 times ABDV 5 times, G Smith 5 times Kevin pietersen 5 times Kallis 4 times Collingwood 4 times Sarwan 4 times Strauss 3 times Gayle 3 times Bell 3 times Lara 2 times

He has abllity to dismiss any batsman in the world as he has a potent out swing at decent pace and I was a big supporter of him since I saw him first in 2004 against NZ in a tour match, but his temperament and noncommittal behavior has not helped him at all. Look at how many international or domestic matches he has played in last 3 years and how many he skipped due to some reasons. Every time, he plays matches without following his fitness regime, he gets injured again. If he had put hard yards in his fitness alone, he would have been first choice bowler ahead of Ishant.

[Trichromatic]

But in my view both Ishant' date=' Sreesanth never look like leader of a bowling unit. At no point they gave that impression. They will at best act as support bowlers. That is the problem with Indian bowling. Everyone looks like support bowlers. Kapil, Srinath later Zaheer genuinely led from the front more than one occasion with reasonable consistency.[/quote'] Sreesanth looked like a bowler who can lead the bowling attack. Ishant looks more like a second bowler. Zaheer was similar to these bowlers (better than Sreesanth) during early days. He looked average for most of the time. Only notable performance was in NZ where he took 2 5fer in tests. Though he was certainly a bowler who could give us early breakthroughs. Srinath was good right from early days. Zaheer has become very good only in last 3 years or so.

[rkt.india]

But in my view both Ishant' date=' Sreesanth never look like leader of a bowling unit. At no point they gave that impression. They will at best act as support bowlers. That is the problem with Indian bowling. Everyone looks like support bowlers. Kapil, Srinath later Zaheer genuinely led from the front more than one occasion with reasonable consistency.[/quote'] But even Srinath and Zaheer did not look that they can lead from front in their first few years. In case of Zaheer, it is only since 2007 and even then, he has missed more tours and matches than he has played. We do not need a leader. We need 4 good bowlers of same level. If we can have 4 bowlers as good as Ishant, we can be good. We do not need one good lead bowler and 3 other poor bowlers. This is not good for any team because one bowler does not win you matches. It is a combination. Captain is there to lead and if we can get four decent bowlers who can bowl as good as Ishant in tests that can solve plenty of problems. IMO, Zaheer is not the right role model for any Indian fast bowler to follow. They can learn from him, but being role model, he is far from it.

[Chandan]

Kapil' date=' Srinath later Zaheer genuinely led from the front more than one occasion with reasonable consistency.[/quote'] When they were 22 years old?

[vvvslaxman]

When they were 22 years old?

We cannot speculate how he would turn out. L Siva took 12 wickets when he was 17. He didn't really go on to become a great bowler though he had lot of talent. Irfan Pathan is another case in point. He also started well only to deteriorate very badly. Statistically Ishant is good. But if you break down his stats , his best stats are against Bangladesh and West Indies. One reason i don't see him turning into a great bowler is he clearly lacks variation and he is not an all season bowler who can do well in any condition.

[BeautifulGame]

We cannot speculate how he would turn out. L Siva took 12 wickets when he was 17. He didn't really go on to become a great bowler though he had lot of talent. Irfan Pathan is another case in point. He also started well only to deteriorate very badly. Statistically Ishant is good. But if you break down his stats ' date=' his best stats are against Bangladesh and West Indies. One reason i don't see him turning into a great bowler is he clearly lacks variation and he is not an all season bowler who can do well in any condition.[/quote'] Ishant even if u just want to go by stats has excellent record against Aus and England at home.Hardly a minnow basher.