VHP says Answer to terrorism is counter terrorism

[Yoda-esque]

We have sham/partial secularism : separate laws for separate religions is not true secularism. Manmohan Singh said : "Minorities, especially the Muslims, have the first right on the natural resources." Should the PM of a "secular" nation be saying this ?

+1

[CSK Fan]

We have sham/partial secularism : separate laws for separate religions is not true secularism. Manmohan Singh said : "Minorities, especially the Muslims, have the first right on the natural resources." Should the PM of a "secular" nation be saying this ?

Dont we bend over backwards for people of lower castes? Arent there reservations for women? A society can only be as strong as their weakest class. And unfortunately many of our minorities are languishing behind. I am ready to take some disadvantage for myself if it means that the weaker parts of my country are getting benifitted. Be it the development of backward classes, minorities or economically weak people. Just like I would pay more attention to a member of my family who is not doing so good and encourage him rather than one who is already excelling This is exactly what our enemies want. As soon as we start thinking along the lines of us vs them, we are divided as a nation. Most people have no problems with quotas for backward classes, dunno why should they have problem with quotas for minorities. In US in legal terms minorities are provided huge benifits

[Yoda-esque]

^ I think hes referring to distinction based on social lines and not religious ones. There needs to be a uniform civil code for everybody. Nobody is arguing about right to education and better livelihood here.

[Lurker]

We have sham/partial secularism : separate laws for separate religions is not true secularism. Manmohan Singh said : "Minorities, especially the Muslims, have the first right on the natural resources." Should the PM of a "secular" nation be saying this ?

And seperate laws for seperate individuals is democracy?? Lest you forget we became democracy first and secular later. How in the world are there different rules for different Indians and folks like you dont make a hue and cry about it? This whole notion of partial secularism (psec) is the biggest bunch of bs the BJP has sold to Indians. Actually I take it back. This whole notion of partial secularism is the biggest bunch of bs the BJP has sold to the Hindus. Lets make a list of the most corrupt politicians of India, folks who have taken India in medieval age. The list should read like Laloo Yadav, Mayawati, Jayalalitha, Madhu Koda, Arjun Munda etc etc. All these politicians have something in common: a) They have gained hugely by using the caste/backward-forward/SC/ST card. b) They are all Hindus. You are worried about Manmohan Singh's statement, show me a statement by any illustrious luminary of BJP who speaks out about the evils of reservation, casteism, going back to 1 vote for each Indians etc. I had once mentioned how about 120 or so constituencies of India are completely off-limits to anyone except SC/ST. I may be born there but can't stand to serve. That, to me, is more important than some election pitch about folks getting rights on resources first. xxx

[seedhi]

Dont we bend over backwards for people of lower castes? Arent there reservations for women? A society can only be as strong as their weakest class. And unfortunately many of our minorities are languishing behind. I am ready to take some disadvantage for myself if it means that the weaker parts of my country are getting benifitted. Be it the development of backward classes' date=' minorities or economically weak people. [/quote']Fine, so the PM should have said that the weaker sections/poor/backward should have the first right on natural resources. Why only Muslims? Are there no poor among Hindus? Again, no problem. But how does this justify differences in laws for marriages, inheritance, divorces, alimony etc?We have already been divided 64 years ago, we know who voted for the division and the reasoning given for it, and we know which ideology has made a mess of a separate country that it got for itself.

[Clarke]

We have sham/partial secularism : separate laws for separate religions is not true secularism.

I'm not sure of it being a sham, our system isn't exactly the western definition of secularism but that does not mean its imperfect secularism, its just another version which may have flaws like everything else out there. Would you agree with the notion that the French burqa law & the Swiss minaret law make those countries partially secular ?

[seedhi]

I'm not sure of it being a sham, our system isn't exactly the western definition of secularism but that does not mean its imperfect secularism, its just another version which may have flaws like everything else out there. Would you agree with the notion that the French burqa law & the Swiss minaret law make those countries partially secular ?

If India were a secular country in principle, then with the passage of time the laws and norms would have become, in practice, more egalitarian and less religion based. Instead, we find that religion is becoming more and more important in governmental interaction with the citizenry. Not one day passes in India without some politician announcing a policy targeted to benefit a particular community. This you wont find in France, Switzerland or USA.

[Lurker]

If India were a secular country in principle' date=' [b']then with the passage of time the laws and norms would have become, in practice, more egalitarian and less religion based. Instead, we find that religion is becoming more and more important in governmental interaction with the citizenry. Not one day passes in India without some politician announcing a policy targeted to benefit a particular community. This you wont find in France, Switzerland or USA.

It is lot more pronounced these days in USA as compared to India. The Republican party may well have its headquarters in a church today. Almost all the leading candidates for President elect claims God asked them to run election. Atleast in India such samples are seldom seen. This growth of religious fundamentalism has put US at a cross-roads. Many a legal situations, abortions for example, that had long become a law and accepted are now being raked up and quite possibly may end up on the voting table sometime in future.

[seedhi]

It is lot more pronounced these days in USA as compared to India. The Republican party may well have its headquarters in a church today. Almost all the leading candidates for President elect claims God asked them to run election. Atleast in India such samples are seldom seen. This growth of religious fundamentalism has put US at a cross-roads. Many a legal situations, abortions for example, that had long become a law and accepted are now being raked up and quite possibly may end up on the voting table sometime in future.

Are we comparing USA and India now, that too on the issue of secularism? USA has a uniform civil law, the demand for which is ironically termed communal by the so called "secularists" in India.

[Lurker]

Are we comparing USA and India now, that too on the issue of secularism?

I am commenting on your earlier post where you are wondering how religion fades for a country with time. And your wondering of how situation is in other countries, including US. Religious fundamentalism is on the up even in a country that has been in existence for 300 years and is widely acknowledged as a developed and highly educated nation.

[seedhi]

I am commenting on your earlier post where you are wondering how religion fades for a country with time. And your wondering of how situation is in other countries' date=' including US. Religious fundamentalism is on the up even in a country that has been in existence for 300 years and is widely acknowledged as a developed and highly educated nation.[/quote']Well then the point I was making did not get across. I am not talking of the society, but of the government. Here in India, governance has begun to be dished out on religious lines. I dont see any example of governmental schemes, projects or interventions in the USA which are targeted towards a particular religious group. The attribute of secularism is intended for the government (state) not the populace which can be religious in its outlook. The state should be non-discriminatory, thats my point.

[surajmal]

He believes 80% of Hindus are being subservient because we have not embraced our 'Hindu' identity and turned the country into a Hindu version of Pakistan.

Clearly you can't be bothered to indulge in an adult conversation. A hindu fundamentalist is a sadhu. RSS, VHP etc are nationalist organization and the reason behind their distrust of Muslims is justified if you were living in the real world for the past 30 years or have read the real history of this country and not what leftist cvnts shove down your throat. But that would be too much to ask of you.

[surajmal]

What are we subservient to? Who has made us subservient? How have we been made to disregard our identity? On a related note, what really is our identity?

The fact that a volunteer hindu organization is termed militant because they express reservations about traitors in this country of 80% hindu majority is enough to draw conclusions about the status of hindus. And the idea that many so called backward castes politicians are in the forefront these days is a sign of hindu strength is utter horsecrap. Tribal areas are still blackholes and backward castes are paraded like poodles at the national stage for vote bank politics. All the while, government institutions are left corroded because merit doesn't mean a thing in this country. Anyways, you ask me about the identity of this country. Well it is not a secular country. This is without doubt the most religious democratic country in the world. Secularism is designed to empower the minorities and that may work in any other country in this world. In this country, however, the majority have been held hostage since the time of the delhi sultanate. So what ever qualms gandhi and nehru had before partition should have been brushed aside, once jinnah and muslim league decided to fvck this country from behind. Trying to make this country secular was absolutely a wrong move. But you can't expect much from the last englishman to rule this country. Secularism is western answer to the dogma of Christianity. It arose out of different circumstances and has absolutely no role to play in this country. Besides, religious pluralism is a hallmark of vedic dharma, so there was no need to make special accommodations to make minorities feel welcome. Secularism is also not the only route to Progressivism and development of scientific thought. This country was a pioneer of in mathematics, astronomy and medicine before Islam in its great wisdom decide to ruin this country. When a country has been left to rot due to 800 years of foreign conquest, there comes a serious need for national cohesion. So in a country, as fractured as India, you grab onto whatever thing you can find to bring the people together. Not try to dismiss it. Its bee far too fvking long since India's story was told through an Indian prism and not what the leftist rags pickup through their western overlords. And that needs to happen.

[Sarkar]

MMS is the weakest weakest pm of India i still do not understand what are they doing with Kasab and Afzal Guru i mean why cant they hang them or kill them in a encounter.

[Sarkar]

We have sham/partial secularism : separate laws for separate religions is not true secularism. Manmohan Singh said : "Minorities, especially the Muslims, have the first right on the natural resources."Should the PM of a "secular" nation be saying this ?

MMS the man has brain in his legs when pakistani army was firing near our border the man kept sending mango boxes to them to show bhai chaara what has he done on mumbai attacks what has he done on mumbai train blasts and many more this country is sold out under sonia and dawood ibrahim lines.

[gs]

The fact that a volunteer hindu organization is termed militant because they express reservations about traitors in this country of 80% hindu majority is enough to draw conclusions about the status of hindus. And the idea that many so called backward castes politicians are in the forefront these days is a sign of hindu strength is utter horsecrap. Tribal areas are still blackholes and backward castes are paraded like poodles at the national stage for vote bank politics. All the while, government institutions are left corroded because merit doesn't mean a thing in this country. Anyways, you ask me about the identity of this country. Well it is not a secular country. This is without doubt the most religious democratic country in the world. Secularism is designed to empower the minorities and that may work in any other country in this world. In this country, however, the majority have been held hostage since the time of the delhi sultanate. So what ever qualms gandhi and nehru had before partition should have been brushed aside, once jinnah and muslim league decided to fvck this country from behind. Trying to make this country secular was absolutely a wrong move. But you can't expect much from the last englishman to rule this country. Secularism is western answer to the dogma of Christianity. It arose out of different circumstances and has absolutely no role to play in this country. Besides, religious pluralism is a hallmark of vedic dharma, so there was no need to make special accommodations to make minorities feel welcome. Secularism is also not the only route to Progressivism and development of scientific thought. This country was a pioneer of in mathematics, astronomy and medicine before Islam in its great wisdom decide to ruin this country. When a country has been left to rot due to 800 years of foreign conquest, there comes a serious need for national cohesion. So in a country, as fractured as India, you grab onto whatever thing you can find to bring the people together. Not try to dismiss it. Its bee far too fvking long since India's story was told through an Indian prism and not what the leftist rags pickup through their western overlords. And that needs to happen.

:two_thumbs_up:

[daryl1985]

The fact that a volunteer hindu organization is termed militant because they express reservations about traitors in this country of 80% hindu majority is enough to draw conclusions about the status of hindus. And the idea that many so called backward castes politicians are in the forefront these days is a sign of hindu strength is utter horsecrap. Tribal areas are still blackholes and backward castes are paraded like poodles at the national stage for vote bank politics. All the while, government institutions are left corroded because merit doesn't mean a thing in this country. Anyways, you ask me about the identity of this country. Well it is not a secular country. This is without doubt the most religious democratic country in the world. Secularism is designed to empower the minorities and that may work in any other country in this world. In this country, however, the majority have been held hostage since the time of the delhi sultanate. So what ever qualms gandhi and nehru had before partition should have been brushed aside, once jinnah and muslim league decided to fvck this country from behind. Trying to make this country secular was absolutely a wrong move. But you can't expect much from the last englishman to rule this country. Secularism is western answer to the dogma of Christianity. It arose out of different circumstances and has absolutely no role to play in this country. Besides, religious pluralism is a hallmark of vedic dharma, so there was no need to make special accommodations to make minorities feel welcome. Secularism is also not the only route to Progressivism and development of scientific thought. This country was a pioneer of in mathematics, astronomy and medicine before Islam in its great wisdom decide to ruin this country. When a country has been left to rot due to 800 years of foreign conquest, there comes a serious need for national cohesion. So in a country, as fractured as India, you grab onto whatever thing you can find to bring the people together. Not try to dismiss it. Its bee far too fvking long since India's story was told through an Indian prism and not what the leftist rags pickup through their western overlords. And that needs to happen.

I don't agree with you (i don't feel i know enough about the topic to respond) but you argue your point really well.

[Mariyam]

This is quite a reply!!! And you write forcefully. Unfortunately, your ire is at the wrong end of the stick. You blame where you should introspect.

The fact that a volunteer hindu organization is termed militant because they express reservations about traitors in this country of 80% hindu majority is enough to draw conclusions about the status of hindus.

Not sure I get you right here. They are called militant because of they indulge in violence ( periodically). How should it matter if the miscreants are volunteers or conscripted hooligans? I also don't follow you when you talk about drawing conclusions about the status of Hindus. Are these people the barometer by which you measure the status of Hindus? Are they any kind of representatives?

And the idea that many so called backward castes politicians are in the forefront these days is a sign of hindu strength is utter horsecrap. Tribal areas are still blackholes and backward castes are paraded like poodles at the national stage for vote bank politics. All the while, government institutions are left corroded because merit doesn't mean a thing in this country.

And? Who is to blame for this? Again, I do not understand the relevance of this in the context of this discussion.

Anyways, you ask me about the identity of this country. Well it is not a secular country. This is without doubt the most religious democratic country in the world. Secularism is designed to empower the minorities and that may work in any other country in this world. In this country, however, the majority have been held hostage since the time of the delhi sultanate. So what ever qualms gandhi and nehru had before partition should have been brushed aside, once jinnah and muslim league decided to fvck this country from behind. Trying to make this country secular was absolutely a wrong move. But you can't expect much from the last englishman to rule this country.

No, I did not ask for the identity of the country? The country after all, is a concept. I had asked your what you think is your ( or our) individual identity? That because, you claimed in your previous post that your (our) identity was suppressed. I ask you this, because it is important to have some kind of an identity. Ask an average Pakistani, and his identity is more of a "I'm not an Indian"identity. Its not being the other. Your posts also indicate 'a not the other' identity. Not secular. Not inclusive. etc Is that really what we aspire to be- Not something else?

Secularism is western answer to the dogma of Christianity. It arose out of different circumstances and has absolutely no role to play in this country. Besides, religious pluralism is a hallmark of vedic dharma, so there was no need to make special accommodations to make minorities feel welcome. Secularism is also not the only route to Progressivism and development of scientific thought. This country was a pioneer of in mathematics, astronomy and medicine before Islam in its great wisdom decide to ruin this country.

See, generally fundamentalists ( of whatever persuasion) glorify a period of time in the antiquity as some sort of a Utopian society. Its not as if India was without problems before she came into contact with Islam. I'm no expert on history, but I don't think being born into a low caste family in India in say 300 BC would be a lot of fun. And why discuss what we can't change anyways. We just don't know enough about that period. What games did the children play in the evenings then? What did the women gossip about? What was the kind of taxation? etc. Why make sweeping assumptions about how utopian we were then when we really don't know.

When a country has been left to rot due to 800 years of foreign conquest, there comes a serious need for national cohesion. So in a country, as fractured as India, you grab onto whatever thing you can find to bring the people together. Not try to dismiss it. Its bee far too fvking long since India's story was told through an Indian prism and not what the leftist rags pickup through their western overlords. And that needs to happen.

You are being subjective here. What is an " Indian " prism? The leftists ( or so you claim) you despise are also Indians. And a lot needs to happen. But people have to make it happen.

[deathmonger]

The fact that a volunteer hindu organization is termed militant because they express reservations about traitors in this country of 80% hindu majority is enough to draw conclusions about the status of hindus. And the idea that many so called backward castes politicians are in the forefront these days is a sign of hindu strength is utter horsecrap. Tribal areas are still blackholes and backward castes are paraded like poodles at the national stage for vote bank politics. All the while, government institutions are left corroded because merit doesn't mean a thing in this country. Anyways, you ask me about the identity of this country. Well it is not a secular country. This is without doubt the most religious democratic country in the world. Secularism is designed to empower the minorities and that may work in any other country in this world. In this country, however, the majority have been held hostage since the time of the delhi sultanate. So what ever qualms gandhi and nehru had before partition should have been brushed aside, once jinnah and muslim league decided to fvck this country from behind. Trying to make this country secular was absolutely a wrong move. But you can't expect much from the last englishman to rule this country. Secularism is western answer to the dogma of Christianity. It arose out of different circumstances and has absolutely no role to play in this country. Besides, religious pluralism is a hallmark of vedic dharma, so there was no need to make special accommodations to make minorities feel welcome. Secularism is also not the only route to Progressivism and development of scientific thought. This country was a pioneer of in mathematics, astronomy and medicine before Islam in its great wisdom decide to ruin this country. When a country has been left to rot due to 800 years of foreign conquest, there comes a serious need for national cohesion. So in a country, as fractured as India, you grab onto whatever thing you can find to bring the people together. Not try to dismiss it. Its bee far too fvking long since India's story was told through an Indian prism and not what the leftist rags pickup through their western overlords. And that needs to happen.

:facepalm: You are blinded with hate, my friend. I agree, Muslims have done some *****y things in the past. But isn't it more of an infinite cause-effect situation. eg Terrorist blast happens. RSS, Bajrang Dal,Some or other Sena go on rampage, kill or beat up Muslims, repression in Muslim community, young kids stray towards terrorism - cycle repeat. You say Islam has ruined this country? The greatest monuments of India have been created by the Mughals. World Cup win you've been celebrating, it's on the back of a Muslim man's bowling. Feel proud of the fact that we have nukes and can blow up Pakistan, well a Muslim man was pivotal in that. if you were living in the real world for the past 30 years or have read the real history of this country and not what right wing hindu extremist shits shove down your throat you would know that. But that would be too much to ask of you.

[Sarkar]

:facepalm: You are blinded with hate, my friend. I agree, Muslims have done some *****y things in the past. But isn't it more of an infinite cause-effect situation. eg Terrorist blast happens. RSS, Bajrang Dal,Some or other Sena go on rampage, kill or beat up Muslims, repression in Muslim community, young kids stray towards terrorism - cycle repeat. You say Islam has ruined this country? The greatest monuments of India have been created by the Mughals. World Cup win you've been celebrating, it's on the back of a Muslim man's bowling. Feel proud of the fact that we have nukes and can blow up Pakistan, well a Muslim man was pivotal in that. if you were living in the real world for the past 30 years or have read the real history of this country and not what right wing hindu extremist shits shove down your throat you would know that. But that would be too much to ask of you.

The win i m celebrating is on two hindu batsman playing superb knock in the final what about sachin who gave us the starts from preliminary to semi finals .Read our history there was so many huge historical places built by hindu kings much before islam came into India. I saw in hyderabad ( deccan ) when pakistan beats India people start celebrating our defeat .