VHP says Answer to terrorism is counter terrorism

[deathmonger]

TBH Pakistani's act as thekedar's of muslims and unfortunately many muslim countries support them Whether it is cricket or Kashmir.What was the aim of Sharjah cup ? why Middle east countries never promoted their own cricket teams? Why they just want to see Pakistan in their country? Don't you see Religion as main factor here Also what is position of OIC on Kashmir? Is it not true that most of them support Pakistan just because they feel hindu India is occupying muslim land?

Yes, they do. But that is them not us. India's muslims I have found to be broad and open minded (not the ones living in ghettos but those who have grown up in a mixed environment) compared to other Muslim nations. Ppl in other Muslim nations have probably never seen a person of another religion in their life and therefore accept whatever is told to them by their leaders and media, India is evil etc etc. But the Muslims who have grown up in a mixed environment harbor no such thoughts as they have experienced life with Hindu people and realize they are not at all different from them compared to Muslims of other nations who don't even know what Hindus are like. The way forward is to integrate poorer sections of Muslim society into the mainstream. It'll take time, a lot of time and there'll be more riots and terror attacks in between. But ultimately, it will pay off. Both the BJP's 'kill em all' and the Congress's vote-bank milking (especially by the great Digvijay Singh) will not work.

[seedhi]

:facepalm: You are blinded with hate, my friend. I agree, Muslims have done some *****y things in the past. But isn't it more of an infinite cause-effect situation. eg Terrorist blast happens. RSS, Bajrang Dal,Some or other Sena go on rampage, kill or beat up Muslims, repression in Muslim community, young kids stray towards terrorism - cycle repeat. You say Islam has ruined this country? The greatest monuments of India have been created by the Mughals. World Cup win you've been celebrating, it's on the back of a Muslim man's bowling. Feel proud of the fact that we have nukes and can blow up Pakistan, well a Muslim man was pivotal in that. if you were living in the real world for the past 30 years or have read the real history of this country and not what right wing hindu extremist shits shove down your throat you would know that. But that would be too much to ask of you.

How many universities and places of learning did the Mughals build? It is a fact that Takshila, Nalanda, Jaggadala, Vikrmashila and other universities were destroyed by Muslim invaders. But in the hundreds of years of Muslim rule, not one major university was set up by them. At around the same time European universities like Cambridge, Oxford, Heidelberg etc were flourishing. On the other hand before the Muslim invasions the subcontinent had already made significant progress in mathematics, science and astronomy. All of that was lost subsequently. Remember, a great university like Cambridge, Harvard, MIT or even our ancient Nalanda are worth more than a hundred Taj Mahals.

[surajmal]

No, I did not ask for the identity of the country? The country after all, is a concept. I had asked your what you think is your ( or our) individual identity? That because, you claimed in your previous post that your (our) identity was suppressed. I ask you this, because it is important to have some kind of an identity. Ask an average Pakistani, and his identity is more of a "I'm not an Indian"identity. Its not being the other. Your posts also indicate 'a not the other' identity. Not secular. Not inclusive. etc Is that really what we aspire to be- Not something else?

This country is not a just concept. It belongs to the people of dharmic faith (hindus, sikhs, jains and buddhists) first and foremost. India in name is a just 64 year old idea but this civilization is 5+ millenia old. So lets get facts clear. I'm not here to give a sermon on hinduism (wouldn't be a right person anyhow). But I suggest you look into what Hinduism (wrong term to use - vedic or sanatan dharma would me more appropriate) really is and how it is diametrically opposite to abrahamic religions in philosphy. It infuriating to see people so clueless about dharma of this land. And I'm not just calling you out this, most Hindus are also clueless about their dharmic values. But your parochial definition of fundamentalism is quite evident. A devout Hindu would absolutely discount and even abhor what RSS, VHP and other right wing nationalist groups stand for. But that is what they are: nationalist groups. Not Hindu fundamentalists. I'm a nationlist. And this fraction of hindus have realized that the laissez faire attiutude of dharmic people towards other cultures has continuously bitten us in the ass. Real world is all about "Jiski lathi uski bhans". Hindus need to take a page out of the book of post WW2 jews and israel.

See, generally fundamentalists ( of whatever persuasion) glorify a period of time in the antiquity as some sort of a Utopian society. Its not as if India was without problems before she came into contact with Islam.

No utopia. For example the time your referred to - 3rd century BCE. The autocratic rule of nanda empire was coming to an end. Chandragupta, the greatest rags to riches story in the history of this land, was about to form maurya empire with the guidance of chanakya (the greatest political mind in this country's history). And BTW, Chandragupta belonged to a lower caste. But your are right, India wasn't without problems, there were wars (and at times quite frequent) but it didn't involve butchering hundereds of thousands of innocent men, women and children at a time. There was an unwritten code of honour between kings (see mahabharat) and people followed it to the T. (another example prithvi raj chauhan granting muhammed ghori clemency).

I'm no expert on history, but I don't think being born into a low caste family in India in say 300 BC would be a lot of fun. And why discuss what we can't change anyways.

Is being born in a poor family at present time any fun? And again, read up on the varna system (there are plenty of lower caste kings in Indian antiquity that shows Social mobility was very much present and the horsecrap that leftist groups peddle is bold faced lie)."Caste system" in its current form (or what was being practiced over the last few centuries that dalit groups have anxiety over and rightly so) is a corrupted product of a society under attack. And you're right, we can't change what happened but what we can do is protect the future. As George Santayana said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

We just don't know enough about that period. What games did the children play in the evenings then? What did the women gossip about? What was the kind of taxation? etc. Why make sweeping assumptions about how utopian we were then when we really don't know.

We know plenty about that period (I'm talking about the pre islamic subcontinental invasions period).India's golden age was 3rd CE to 7th CE. You just aren't taught that in school. I mean why shouldn't we marvel at genociadal maniacs of the mughal empire or the khilji dynasty or delhi sultanate or ghaznavids. Courtesy of Congress and its leftist gang. In my opinion, the present time is a lot like that that pre-Mauryan empire time period with Congress being the equivalent of Nanda Dynasty. There is just a need for a chanakya and chandragupta to steer our ship home.

You are being subjective here. What is an " Indian " prism? The leftists ( or so you claim) you despise are also Indians. And a lot needs to happen. But people have to make it happen.

No they are not indians. they are self hating tools. There loyalty lies only to the almighty greenback. Their goal is to get a book deal and maybe a spot in the western talk circuit and they'll denigrate even their mother to acheive all this. They are intellectually dishonest and the least offensive word i can use to describe them is ingenues. As for the definition of "Indian prism" I suggest getting your hands on Rajiv Malhotra's Being Different: An Indian challenge to Western Universalism. I haven't read it yet but he has been giving previews in his recent lectures (posted on YouTube) and from the excerpts posted on amazon.com, the book seems quite compelling. Also this page is a good start. http://veda.wikidot.com/dharma-and-religion

[surajmal]

:facepalm: You are blinded with hate, my friend. I agree, Muslims have done some *****y things in the past. But isn't it more of an infinite cause-effect situation.

I'm not blinded with hate. I realize Muslims in this country are converted (in most cases lower caste) Hindus. So they have got as much of a stake in this country as anyone. As long as they profess their allegience to the nation first and ummah second.

The greatest monuments of India have been created by the Mughals.

Here is an interesting nugget and clearly shows your lack of knowledge. I should thank them for those great monuments like I should thank mayawati for the monuments she has constructed. While I'm there I should also thank them (not just them but rest of their muslim gang) for committing the greatest sustained genocide in the history of mankind (unfortunate for them that the attempt to wipe out this country's sanskriti failed.) I should also thank them for destroying countless temples and wiping out universities that essentially destroyed this country's intellectual bank and set it back atleast a millenium. You need more thanks? Okay, I should thank them for emptying out the treasury of this country to satisfy their ego. As a result of which, this country was left bankrupt and unable to mount any alliances or fund any armies to fight the British.

World Cup win you've been celebrating, it's on the back of a Muslim man's bowling. Feel proud of the fact that we have nukes and can blow up Pakistan, well a Muslim man was pivotal in that.

You are seriously getting petty here, aren't you? Sign of a true douche. Alright I'll play this game with you. 1 guy doesn't win crap. Otherwise Indians would've been worldbeaters, considering they had the best batsman of this generation. Nukes are the gift of Homi Bhabha, a parsi. You know the community that had to flee their homeland, Iran, after Muslims took it over in fear of persecution. The muslim man is the missile guy and I'm very thankful for his services to this country. He is a national hero. Unfortunately, he represents a tiny percentage of the Muslims in this country. And this is the last response I'm gonna give to your drivel because you clearly are misinformed and have been throughly dhimmified. You know like your pakistani brethren who hate their former homeland so much that they celebrate the rape of their hindu mothers by their barbaric muslim fathers.

[desi.boy]

do you feel threatened by muslims?

Its a potential big threat, but right now we're managing. As I said, the ratio of population needs to be maintained by promoting family planning for both hindu\muslim but more among muslims. and I know for sure tht if India were a muslim majority, it would have been another islamic republic of pakistan and this stuff would be common here as well: http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/world/asia/four-hindu-doctors-gunned-down-pakistan-737

[BeautifulGame]

Nukes are the gift of Homi Bhabha, a parsi. You know the community that had to flee their homeland, Iran, after Muslims took it over in fear of persecution. The muslim man is the missile guy and I'm very thankful for his services to this country. He is a national hero. Unfortunately, he represents a tiny percentage of the Muslims in this country.

Any proof for that? U portray too much of ur drivels as if they are facts when they are just ur own opinion. Caste system is as big a threat to India as Terrorism.So by ur absurd logic Upper caste Indians are traitors and we India are as threatened by Indian muslims as by Upper caste Indians.

[surajmal]

Any proof for that? U portray too much of ur drivels as if they are facts when they are just ur own opinion. Caste system is as big a threat to India as Terrorism.So by ur absurd logic Upper caste Indians are traitors and we India are as threatened by Indian muslims as by Upper caste Indians.

Muslims form 2% of the Indian Army while they constitute 13-14 % of the entire populace. Caste system is a threat in this day and age? What world are you living in. But , suppose it is. End the socialist experiment and privatize everything. Caste system goes out of the window because in a world of profits, it doesn't matter if you are a brahmin or a dalit.

[Tiger80]

Yes, they do. But that is them not us. India's muslims I have found to be broad and open minded (not the ones living in ghettos but those who have grown up in a mixed environment) compared to other Muslim nations. Ppl in other Muslim nations have probably never seen a person of another religion in their life and therefore accept whatever is told to them by their leaders and media, India is evil etc etc. But the Muslims who have grown up in a mixed environment harbor no such thoughts as they have experienced life with Hindu people and realize they are not at all different from them compared to Muslims of other nations who don't even know what Hindus are like. The way forward is to integrate poorer sections of Muslim society into the mainstream. It'll take time, a lot of time and there'll be more riots and terror attacks in between. But ultimately, it will pay off. Both the BJP's 'kill em all' and the Congress's vote-bank milking (especially by the great Digvijay Singh) will not work.

Personal experiances in these discussions are irrelevant ,one can have good or bad experiance with community .I find your idea of truly secular India in which all religions remain peacefully more of a dream than reality.History and what is happening in world tell something different story .Upto 1937 only 5% muslims were supporters of muslim league and there was hardly any support of them in Punjab or Bengal but in 9 years they broadened this support to 90% .So political environment changes quite rapidly

[Tiger80]

Its a potential big threat, but right now we're managing. As I said, the ratio of population needs to be maintained by promoting family planning for both hindumuslim but more among muslims. and I know for sure tht if India were a muslim majority, it would have been another islamic republic of pakistan and this stuff would be common here as well: http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/world/asia/four-hindu-doctors-gunned-down-pakistan-737

You are very much spot on main threats are high birth rate and large immigration from BD

[deathmonger]

I'm not blinded with hate. I realize Muslims in this country are converted (in most cases lower caste) Hindus. So they have got as much of a stake in this country as anyone. As long as they profess their allegience to the nation first and ummah second. Here is an interesting nugget and clearly shows your lack of knowledge. I should thank them for those great monuments like I should thank mayawati for the monuments she has constructed. While I'm there I should also thank them (not just them but rest of their muslim gang) for committing the greatest sustained genocide in the history of mankind (unfortunate for them that the attempt to wipe out this country's sanskriti failed.) I should also thank them for destroying countless temples and wiping out universities that essentially destroyed this country's intellectual bank and set it back atleast a millenium. You need more thanks? Okay, I should thank them for emptying out the treasury of this country to satisfy their ego. As a result of which, this country was left bankrupt and unable to mount any alliances or fund any armies to fight the British. You are seriously getting petty here, aren't you? Sign of a true douche. Alright I'll play this game with you. 1 guy doesn't win crap. Otherwise Indians would've been worldbeaters, considering they had the best batsman of this generation. Nukes are the gift of Homi Bhabha, a parsi. You know the community that had to flee their homeland, Iran, after Muslims took it over in fear of persecution. The muslim man is the missile guy and I'm very thankful for his services to this country. He is a national hero. Unfortunately, he represents a tiny percentage of the Muslims in this country. And this is the last response I'm gonna give to your drivel because you clearly are misinformed and have been throughly dhimmified. You know like your pakistani brethren who hate their former homeland so much that they celebrate the rape of their hindu mothers by their barbaric muslim fathers.

:facepalm: think what you want to.

[BeautifulGame]

Muslims form 2% of the Indian Army while they constitute 13-14 % of the entire populace.

WTF did u mean by this stat? So now joining is now proof of anyone's loyalty to the country? :facepalm: So i assume every Hindu who sint in Army isnt loyal to the country now? Btw are u working in Army or u not loayl to the country either?

Caste system is a threat in this day and age? What world are you living in.

Have u ever visited Villages in India? Do u know most villages in India still have seperate colonies for dalits so as to stop them mingling with the upper castes. Do u even know what untouchability means?

But , suppose it is. End the socialist experiment and privatize everything. Caste system goes out of the window because in a world of profits, it doesn't matter if you are a brahmin or a dalit.

How the **** did privatizing everything will help everything? How did privitizing schools will help children of Dalits and other lower castes who are poor already send their children to get Education in Private schools who dont offer free education? How does poor in the country buy groceries if u privatize ration shops? U think its just a co incidence all the lands in the villages are with Upper castes and lower castes are only labours generation after generation? In world of profits and privatization rich gets richer and poor gets poorer.How the sh1t does that helps India?

[BeautifulGame]

You know like your pakistani brethren who hate their former homeland so much that they celebrate the rape of their hindu mothers by their barbaric muslim fathers.

What does that does with Indian muslims? Dont use shallow arguments like these and try to portray everything the way u want to see as truth. There are Hindus in India who practiced Sati for centuries and still practise honor killings in India.Does that make every Hindu living in India a butcher and Hinduism a disgraceful religion?

[panther]

even with high birth rates of muslims hinduisam will remain the dominant religion in india

[Mariyam]

This country is not a just concept. It belongs to the people of dharmic faith (hindus' date= sikhs, jains and buddhists) first and foremost. India in name is a just 64 year old idea but this civilization is 5+ millenia old. So lets get facts clear.

The constitution of the land doesn't agree with you. India belongs to all Indians born and raised here. Whats the difference between you and Arundhati Roy then? Both of you make unconstitutional , outrageous statements?

I'm not here to give a sermon on hinduism (wouldn't be a right person anyhow). But I suggest you look into what Hinduism (wrong term to use - vedic or sanatan dharma would me more appropriate) really is and how it is diametrically opposite to abrahamic religions in philosphy. It infuriating to see people so clueless about dharma of this land. And I'm not just calling you out this, most Hindus are also clueless about their dharmic values.

What? Why am I clueless about Hinduism? I haven't ever said anything about its scriptures or texts? I haven't commented on Hinduism at all.Based on what exactly do you draw this conclusion?

But your parochial definition of fundamentalism is quite evident. A devout Hindu would absolutely discount and even abhor what RSS, VHP and other right wing nationalist groups stand for. But that is what they are: nationalist groups. Not Hindu fundamentalists. I'm a nationlist. And this fraction of hindus have realized that the laissez faire attiutude of dharmic people towards other cultures has continuously bitten us in the ass. Real world is all about "Jiski lathi uski bhans". Hindus need to take a page out of the book of post WW2 jews and israel.

Again, what?? My definition of fundamentalism? Where have I defined it? Are you mistaking me for someone else on this board?

As for the definition of "Indian prism" I suggest getting your hands on Rajiv Malhotra's Being Different: An Indian challenge to Western Universalism. I haven't read it yet but he has been giving previews in his recent lectures (posted on YouTube) and from the excerpts posted on amazon.com, the book seems quite compelling. Also this page is a good start. http://veda.wikidot.com/dharma-and-religion

Thanks. I will look it up as time permits. You obviously know your history. I don't. But in the wider scheme of things, I fail to find its context in this discussion.

[Andrew Peter]

.Upto 1937 only 5% muslims were supporters of muslim league and there was hardly any support of them in Punjab or Bengal but in 9 years they broadened this support to 90% .So political environment changes quite rapidly

Sad thing is that Muslims in Punjab or Bengal were never as Extremist as the ones we have sitting in UP or Hyderabad today .

[Mariyam]

Sad thing is that Muslims in Punjab or Bengal were never as Extremist as the ones we have sitting in UP or Hyderabad today .

An extended period of sitting down leads to excruciating pain in the extremities giving rise to excessive extremism. I suggest you consider only those in UP and Hyderabad who are standing.

[seedhi]

The constitution of the land doesn't agree with you. India belongs to all Indians born and raised here. Whats the difference between you and Arundhati Roy then? Both of you make unconstitutional , outrageous statements?

Then the Constitution must also contradict Manmohan Singh's statement that "Muslims have the first right to the nation's natural resources". Dont you find that statement unconstitutional and outrageous? So then, what is the difference between Manmohan Singh and Arundhati Roy?

[Mariyam]

Then the Constitution must also contradict Manmohan Singh's statement that "Muslims have the first right to the nation's natural resources". Dont you find that statement unconstitutional and outrageous? So then, what is the difference between Manmohan Singh and Arundhati Roy?

Absolutely Seedhi. I find that statement completely outrageous and unconstitutional. More so because its from a person of Dr. MMS's stature, not your run of the mill rabble rousing politician. You won't see me defending the indefensible.

[bulbul]

The day Indian Muslims Stop voting just based on past history things will improve ... vote bank is the one of biggest resons for communalism in this country..Already we have seen vote bank hnot working in Bihar

[ravishingravi]

This is really a pathetic thread. I mean in terms of sheer ignorance and hatred in some of the opinions.