vamos_rafa Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Abdul Razzaq' date=' Hansie cronje, Pedro collins :winky: Don't go by that yardstick.[/quote'] Pedro Collins did that in one series.Hansie Cronje is not really test match quality bowler. For that matter, even Chris Harris troubled Sachin. I am talking about the way Anderson had got him over a span of a few years.
carnish Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 STEYN no doubt is a good bowler bt to say that he is an ATG is too much...DONALD, McGRATH, WALSH, AMBROSE, POLLOCK were better than STEYN throughout their career and were more consistent also. The thing with STEYN is sometimes he looks mediocore while there have been quite a few times he has run through a side and so his strike rate is better. STEYN bowls well in pretty much all conditions which ANDERSON can never do but he does that because of the support he gets in form of MORNE MORKEL who i consider is one of the most underrated bowler in todays play as he most often creates the pressure which helps STEYN gets the wickets from the other end. I would love to see STEYN bowl well when he is without MORKEL...and consider rating him higher than DONALD, WALSH, AMBROSE, or McGRATH
vamos_rafa Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 STEYN no doubt is a good bowler bt to say that he is an ATG is too much...DONALD, McGRATH, WALSH, AMBROSE, POLLOCK were better than STEYN throughout their career and were more consistent also. The thing with STEYN is sometimes he looks mediocore while there have been quite a few times he has run through a side and so his strike rate is better. STEYN bowls well in pretty much all conditions which ANDERSON can never do but he does that because of the support he gets in form of MORNE MORKEL who i consider is one of the most underrated bowler in todays play as he most often creates the pressure which helps STEYN gets the wickets from the other end. I would love to see STEYN bowl well when he is without MORKEL...and consider rating him higher than DONALD, WALSH, AMBROSE, or McGRATH Well this logic seems apt for each and every bowler that you mentioned. Walsh was no way close to the bowler that Ambrose was, but he got his wickets because of the pressure that Ambrose created. Same ways, Donald used to bowl in tandem with Pollock, so whose success would you attribute to whom? Even the greatest one's need support. Then only they can get the wickets. Cricket is a team game.
Trichromatic Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 STEYN no doubt is a good bowler bt to say that he is an ATG is too much...DONALD, McGRATH, WALSH, AMBROSE, POLLOCK were better than STEYN throughout their career and were more consistent also. The thing with STEYN is sometimes he looks mediocore while there have been quite a few times he has run through a side and so his strike rate is better. STEYN bowls well in pretty much all conditions which ANDERSON can never do but he does that because of the support he gets in form of MORNE MORKEL who i consider is one of the most underrated bowler in todays play as he most often creates the pressure which helps STEYN gets the wickets from the other end. I would love to see STEYN bowl well when he is without MORKEL...and consider rating him higher than DONALD, WALSH, AMBROSE, or McGRATH Can't recall when Steyn has looked a mediocre bowler in test cricket. Like Vamos said, all bowlers bowl in pair and in most cases partners of other greats were better than Morkel. If you consider Donald as a great, then Pollock was way ahead of Morkel. Same goes with McGrath (Warne), Walsh. In their cases partners were good in almost all conditions. But in case of Steyn, Morkel doesn't bowl that well in unfavorable conditions. I would say that if he can maintain his performance for 2 years more, he would undoubtedly become an ATG. For me he is already a great bowler.
vvvslaxman Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Can't recall when Steyn has looked a mediocre bowler in test cricket. Like Vamos said, all bowlers bowl in pair and in most cases partners of other greats were better than Morkel. If you consider Donald as a great, then Pollock was way ahead of Morkel. Same goes with McGrath (Warne), Walsh. In their cases partners were good in almost all conditions. But in case of Steyn, Morkel doesn't bowl that well in unfavorable conditions. I would say that if he can maintain his performance for 2 years more, he would undoubtedly become an ATG. For me he is already a great bowler. Morkel is nowhere close to Jason Gillespie let alone Shaun Pollock.
carnish Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Not differing on tests or ODI's .... steyn sometimes looks mediocore in ODI's.. the thng abt Donald , Pollock , McGrath, Walsh, Ambrose was they were as good in tests as they were in ODI's... so the batsmen had more of a respect for them... with steyn's discipline sometime swaying in ODI's the batsmen who play him well during his off days can have a high confidence facing him next time...
carnish Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Morkel is nowhere close to Jason Gillespie let alone Shaun Pollock. Morkel is no way close to Gillespie or Pollock in terms of taking wickets but he is pretty good with the length and lines he bowls... pretty good at restricting the runs and not giving room for the batters which builds up the pacers and the only reason he doesnot get wickets is he usually doesnt bowls a fuller length as steyn and is usually back of the length... and with time i believ Morkel can and will develop into a great bowler if not an ATG
Dravid_TheWall Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Morkel is nowhere close to Jason Gillespie let alone Shaun Pollock. Mcgrath, Gillespie, Warne, loved watching those guys bowl. They would quickly figure out any opposition and made the Captain's life easy.
IKnowU Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 People forget Brett Lee was just as brutal only a few years ago, him and steyn are the clear standouts along with Akhthar earlier in the decade.
Dravid_TheWall Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 People forget Brett Lee was just as brutal only a few years ago' date=' him and steyn are the clear standouts along with Akhthar earlier in the decade.[/quote'] Lee good ODI bowler, wasn't amazingly good at tests. Fun to watch though, one of those characters :yay:
daryl1985 Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 STEYN no doubt is a good bowler bt to say that he is an ATG is too much...DONALD' date=' McGRATH, [b']WALSH, AMBROSE, POLLOCK were better than STEYN throughout their career and were more consistent also. The thing with STEYN is sometimes he looks mediocore while there have been quite a few times he has run through a side and so his strike rate is better. STEYN bowls well in pretty much all conditions which ANDERSON can never do but he does that because of the support he gets in form of MORNE MORKEL who i consider is one of the most underrated bowler in todays play as he most often creates the pressure which helps STEYN gets the wickets from the other end. I would love to see STEYN bowl well when he is without MORKEL...and consider rating him higher than DONALD, WALSH, AMBROSE, or McGRATH I agree with your point that Steyn can look mediocre in ODI's but in tests he is a beast. He is better than Walsh and Pollock in my opinion. As good as those two were i don't think they have the x-factor that Steyn does nor are they as devastating. If you would have liked to have seen Steyn bowl without Morkel at the other end then you surely would have liked to have seen Walsh without Ambrose (and vice versa), Donald without Pollock (and vice versa) and McGrath without Gillespie and Warne. The great thing about Steyn is that Graeme Smith has often been able to turn to him to get a breakthrough when they have needed it. A couple of examples of this would be the wicket of Shaun Marsh in the 1st innings of the test just gone and last December against India in the 1st test in SA when Tendulkar and Dhoni had put together a very good partnership after we followed on. The Saffers were beginning to lose heart but Steyn came back (bowling at close to 150kph) and got Dhoni before we went on to collapse.
vamos_rafa Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 People forget Brett Lee was just as brutal only a few years ago' date=' him and steyn are the clear standouts along with Akhthar earlier in the decade.[/quote'] Brett Lee in 2007-08 was as good as any bowler in the recent past.
rkt.india Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 There is one aspect for which I rate Anderson the bowler. He has troubled Sachin on a number of occasions' date=' which not many bowlers can claim. I think out of Anderson and Steyn against Sachin, Anderson has the upper hand and I am talking about playing in England and SA resp.[/quote'] Didn't you watch SA test series. Sachin looked clueless against Steyn many times and the difference you are talking about between Anderson and Styen is insdippers which Anderson can bowl but Styen struggle to bowl that. But I would say Styen is a no nonsense bowler. He knows what his strength is and does not experiment much like Sreesanth do. He sticks to his strength which is bowling outswingers and he regularly takes wickets with that. If he does anything different then that is to increase his pace by yard than what Sree and Anderson bowls and bowl bouncers to send the batsman on the backfoot and set him up for pitched up outswingers which is his stock delivery.
rkt.india Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Morkel is nowhere close to Jason Gillespie let alone Shaun Pollock. Morkel has 5-fer in India and he is very under rated, IMO. He has improved a lot and was more hostile than even Styen sometimes last year in tests against us. He is the kind of bowler you can never be completely sure of. He can surprise even the best batsman any time with that pace and bounce.
Trichromatic Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Morkel has 5-fer in India and he is very under rated' date=' IMO. He has improved a lot and was more hostile than even Styen sometimes last year in tests against us. He is the kind of bowler you can never be completely sure of. He can surprise even the best batsman any time with that pace and bounce.[/quote'] Morkel is certainly one of the best bowler in the world at this time. He is probably best ODI bowler for SA.
daryl1985 Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Morkel is certainly one of the best bowler in the world at this time. He is probably best ODI bowler for SA. :headshake: Tsotsobe :yay:
VRV Singh Posted November 13, 2011 Author Posted November 13, 2011 6 wickets in the next Test and Steyn would be the joint fastest to 250 wickets with Lillee (48 matches). He has also joined the 900 club in the ICC rankings. I am with others in that I love watching the guy bowl.
rkt.india Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Morkel is certainly one of the best bowler in the world at this time. He is probably best ODI bowler for SA. He is the kind of bowler a batsman would want to face the least because of his extra bounce from good length at over 140K, pretty similar to what Steven Finn was doing in ODI series against India.
Trichromatic Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 6 wickets in the next Test and Steyn would be the joint fastest to 250 wickets with Lillee (48 matches). He has also joined the 900 club in the ICC rankings. I am with others in that I love watching the guy bowl. Dale Steyn is already up there with most wickets after 45,46 and 47 matches. Mat Player Country Wickets Avg Year 40 Waqar Younis Pakistan 211 20.87 1996 41 Waqar Younis Pakistan 216 21.08 1996 42 Waqar Younis Pakistan 217 21.67 1996 43 Waqar Younis Pakistan 222 21.49 1996 44 Lillee, D K Australia 229 23.30 1980 45 Steyn, D W * South Africa 232 23.08 2010 46 Steyn, D W * South Africa 238 22.99 2011 47 Steyn, D W * South Africa 244 22.75 2011 48 Lillee, D K Australia 251 23.37 1981 49 Lillee, D K Australia 259 22.96 1981 50 Lillee, D K Australia 262 23.40 1981 Averaging 22 in this batsman era is just amazing. He is the kind of bowler a batsman would want to face the least because of his extra bounce from good length at over 140K' date=' pretty similar to what Steven Finn was doing in ODI series against India.[/quote'] India lacked Morkel type of bowler in England.
daryl1985 Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 He is the kind of bowler a batsman would want to face the least because of his extra bounce from good length at over 140K' date=' pretty similar to what Steven Finn was doing in ODI series against India.[/quote'] Totally agree. After Steyn, i feel Morkel is up there with the likes of Anderson as the best bowler in the world. Sometimes i feel he under performs given his ability.
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