Is Ashwin the genuine all rounder we are looking for?

[sensible-indian]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

But you are forgetting one point. You just cannot go with two fast bowlers in a test.Thakur was always a wild card.

 

You are assuming that Ashwin was going to handle Head on first day.

 

Hindsight is always nice but given what Ashwin did in England till now in his career, I don't think it was wrong call at all.

 

Two spinners was a overkill , India would be bowling spinners in first hour after winning the toss.

Ashwin was easily India's best bowler in WTC 2021 finals on a green English track.

 

The only time Ashwin miserably failed in Eng was during Southampton and to be fair, he never should have played that test.

 

2 spinners wasn't an overkill in 2023 cos at that time, Jaddu could make the team as a batsman.

[putrevus]

30 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Ashwin was easily India's best bowler in WTC 2021 finals on a green English track.

 

The only time Ashwin miserably failed in Eng was during Southampton and to be fair, he never should have played that test.

 

2 spinners wasn't an overkill in 2023 cos at that time, Jaddu could make the team as a batsman.

2 spinners is overkill when you just have two pace bowlers .

 

The non selection is not a knock on Ashwin.Just like Ashwin did not play any tests in 2021 tour which was again right call.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2024 by putrevus

[Lord]

15 minutes ago, putrevus said:

2 spinners is overkill when you just have two pace bowlers .

 

The non selection is not a knock on Ashwin.Just like Ashwin did not play any tests in 2021 tour which was again right call.

 

 

 

We played 4 pacers in 2023 WC

[putrevus]

Just now, Lord said:

 

We played 4 pacers in 2023 WC

You mean 50 over WC?

[Lord]

Just now, putrevus said:

You mean 50 over WC?

 

WTC finals sorry

[sensible-indian]

25 minutes ago, putrevus said:

2 spinners is overkill when you just have two pace bowlers .

 

The non selection is not a knock on Ashwin.Just like Ashwin did not play any tests in 2021 tour which was again right call.

 

 

I get where you are coming from.

 

2 pacers is defo not going to work out.

 

You have to pick 3 solid pacers. If Shardul doesn't inspire confidence for you, pick someone else.

 

In test cricket, you gotta make the XI as a pure bat or bowler ATLEAST.

 

The only exception is for the 5th bowler / AR slot and that is occupied by Jaddu..and ironically, he would have made the team as a pure bat.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

WTC finals sorry

One of them was Thakur, he was playing either way. It was between Ashwin and Umesh.

 

Based on how previous England tour went and Umesh doing well in Oval in 2021 plus the green top on first day.It was not wrong call.

 

Hindsight is the luxury teams don't have.We also could make a case if Ashwin played in 50 world cup finals too.He would have knocked off Head there also.Siraj did not do much either the finals.

 

 

 

 

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

I get where you are coming from.

 

2 pacers is defo not going to work out.

 

You have to pick 3 solid pacers. If Shardul doesn't inspire confidence for you, pick someone else.

 

In test cricket, you gotta make the XI as a pure bat or bowler ATLEAST.

 

The only exception is for the 5th bowler / AR slot and that is occupied by Jaddu..and ironically, he would have made the team as a pure bat.

We did not have anyone else. If Bumrah was fit, I would have said playing Ashwin would have made sense.

 

Shardul justified his place to some extent with his batting.

 

Jadeja while is great as allrounder.Can he play as pure batsman who can bowl is the big question.Would you be comfortable going with just four batsmen and Jadeja into ICC test finals.

 

Ashwin has been unfortunate victim of lack of batting depth .

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, sensible-indian said:

I never objected to it.

 

If you see our interaction, I only raised objection to the way you downplayed the Sydney knock cos it wasn't focussed on winning and wasn't the main knock.

 

Cricket is not linear.

 

The nearer we are to the close of play..the harder it gets.

 

Considering the legendary attack we were up again..both his and Vihari was an incredible knock.

 

Heck, we still needed a ton of luck to survive them...but we did....for 43 overs....with the series hanging in balance.

I still don't buy this theory. The real game changer in that game was Pant followed by Pujara. Pant absolutely made India believe that they are not playing to lose or draw the game but they actually have the skill sets to go and win the game. The way he took apart Lyon really build fear in the eyes of their captain and team management. And then the way Pujara battled for two sessions was just unbelievable.

 

Ofcourse, in first inning, Jadeja's spell turned the momentum otherwise Australia like they always do in Sydney, were well on course for a 450 total.

[sensible-indian]

53 minutes ago, Majestic said:

I still don't buy this theory. The real game changer in that game was Pant followed by Pujara. Pant absolutely made India believe that they are not playing to lose or draw the game but they actually have the skill sets to go and win the game. The way he took apart Lyon really build fear in the eyes of their captain and team management. And then the way Pujara battled for two sessions was just unbelievable.

 

Ofcourse, in first inning, Jadeja's spell turned the momentum otherwise Australia like they always do in Sydney, were well on course for a 450 total.

 

Yes, they all played a HUGE role. Pant, Pujara, Jaddu.

 

Nobody said Ashwin was the sole game changer in Sydney.

 

Ashwin's blockathon was a super crucial contribution that's all.

 

Surviving 43 overs against that attack to defend a test is a mind boggling feat. That's why its special.

 

And when you talk about Ashwin's batting impact, its filled with contributions like this. Runs when you actually need them.

 

His batting stats (in SENA) are unbelievably misleading.

 

Even Southampton chase - he was hanging on, scored a crucial 25 but wickets fell from the other end and he was the last to get out.
 

WTC Finals - Remember the quick fire knock we needed to cross 200? In the second innings, him and Pant were actually looking comfortable (and we thought we might get a draw lol) before Pant went for a crazy shot and then Ashwin chased a wide ball lol.

 

Ashwin is an odd batsman.

 

He will score 30 against a low level domestic team at home.

 

He will score 30 against Prime Rabada/Starc/Cummins on a spicy pitch.

 

But he won't get that 70s or 80s.

 

That's why he could never make it as a pure batsman. You need to kick on and carry on which he is unable to do.

 

In SENA, he is a clutch number 8. Nothing more than that.

 

Anyways..coming back to the point...no one ever said Ashwin was the main guy in Sydney.

 

He wasn't. He was one of the guys.

Edited September 24, 2024 by sensible-indian