achilles Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 I am sure they checked and found that the bids were won fair and square according to the Government of India's telecom ministry. What more could they have asked for? Or are you saying they should have pulled out based simply on principle? I am not sure thats good business acumen. See, if you are a businessman, you will firstly check whether the Govt cleared them or not. After doing that, you will check the rates at which they were acquired. So after these two checks, won't you realize that a license acquired at say $1000 and being sold at $8000 will have some catch in it? It should raise suspicions immediately. Also, in the case of Aircel, Maxis made Maran armtwist Aircel to sell its stake to Maxis. Swan and Unitech were nonexistent in the telecom sphere. So the companies investing must've taken that into consideration as well, no? There must be similar cases out there.
Clarke Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 If you want to commit a crime first and then say, "Don't punish us for the crime", I'm sorry. Don't come and invest in India. And this para is the takeaway from the article for me- To think that they didn't know how the licenses were acquired in the first place, would be akin to questioning their business acumen. Will a corporation invest billions of dollars in India without doing a proper check of what they are getting into? No. What crime ? As far as the international investors are concerned, the licenses were acquired fair & square. It can be interpreted as govt incentive to boost the telecom sector by means of cheap licenses. By who awarded you the title of 'coolest gujju' ? As far as the gujju aspect goes, you lack basic business acumen. No gujju goes about a very good deal thinking 'hey, that sounds fishy to me, let me go to court and find out the right price to buy this fair & square'.
achilles Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 What crime ? As far as the international investors are concerned' date=' the licenses were acquired fair & square. It can be interpreted as govt incentive to boost the telecom sector by means of cheap licenses.[/quote'] Cheap licenses being resold at 8 times the rate are cheap? Okay.
Clarke Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 Cheap licenses being resold at 8 times the rate are cheap? Okay. This figure of 8 times came after the 3G auction occurred. There was no open auction for 2G. If the status quo had continued for 3G, we wouldn't be debating this at all. Somehow, you expect some Scandinavian investor to predict the a) 3G auction b) spectrum prices in the auction c) litigation comparing the 2G & 3G spectrum prices leading to cancellation of licenses years in advance ? Okay! Ignoring the nonsensical part about me which has nothing to do with the thread, Self appointed ? I thought so .. let me focus on the part which that is relevant. It is called being sure of what you are getting into. And everyone does that. Do you expect Telenor to buy licenses from some ghetto company which has zero experience in the telecom sector, just on a whim? No. They knew what they were getting into. And they've got themselves to blame for what has happened. So Unitech is some ghetto company and cannot invest into telecom licenses even if it has total assets worth billions ? I wonder why millions around the world invest in gold, its not like they're metallurgists or metal traders ? What would they know about assets like wireless spectrum or gold, i mean so what if they're in high demand and have a finite limit in terms of availability.
yoda Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 Well, let's face it. Corporations know that they are investigating in a country where anything can and will be turned upside down by anyone and at anytime for any or no reason.
achilles Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 This figure of 8 times came after the 3G auction occurred. There was no open auction for 2G. If the status quo had continued for 3G, we wouldn't be debating this at all. Somehow, you expect some Scandinavian investor to predict the a) 3G auction b) spectrum prices in the auction c) litigation comparing the 2G & 3G spectrum prices leading to cancellation of licenses years in advance ? Okay! No. I expect them to atleast have an idea about how the market works in the country they are planning to invest in. Self appointed ? I thought so .. Thanks So Unitech is some ghetto company and cannot invest into telecom licenses even if it has total assets worth billions ? Is some nahi, IS one ghetto company. I wonder why millions around the world invest in gold' date=' its not like they're metallurgists or metal traders ? What would they know about assets like wireless spectrum or gold, i mean so what if they're in high demand and have a finite limit in terms of availability.[/quote'] So people like wake up one fine morning and say, "Hey, gold looks good. Let me invest in it", without being aware about zilch? Oh yeah, sure. By what you're suggesting, they shouldn't do any research about it, not read papers, talk to their agents, just invest money in it because it is in high demand and their chacha from Bhatinda told them to. Good.
Clarke Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 No. I expect them to atleast have an idea about how the market works in the country they are planning to invest in. Please enlighten us, what should have they known about the 'market' that you know and they didn't ? Is some nahi, IS one ghetto company. The reason being ? So people like wake up one fine morning and say, "Hey, gold looks good. Let me invest in it", without being aware about zilch? Oh yeah, sure. By what you're suggesting, they shouldn't do any research about it, not read papers, talk to their agents, just invest money in it because it is in high demand and their chacha from Bhatinda told them to. Good. Don't put words in my mouth. No one could have predicted the 3G auction happening, the CAG report coming out with the data, the litigation being filed & the Supreme court canceling the licenses. Same goes for any investor, no one can predict deals being canceled years later or prices of non-renewable resources like gold (although slightly off track, the comparison is about non renewable resources, not the way they are traded) plummeting for unforeseen reasons. Telenor & Unitech for sure have far knowledgeable management than the wannabe coolest gujju of a cricket forum who claims they should have known it after the Supreme court revoked the licenses.
bihutoli Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Well let's put it this way. If the treasury manages to recover the fair value of the spectrum, the temporary reduction in investment due to this revocation will probably be more than compensated. Even otherwise India in general is too large a market for investors to ignore and the telecom sector did need some consolidation imo. Its true that this decision negatively impacts India's image and the foreign investors if nothing else deserve state help in recovering their invested money from the Indian companies that sold them the spectrum. But in the longer run some reversals like this may actually improve the investment environment in the distant future.
achilles Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Please enlighten us' date=' what should have they known about the 'market' that you know and they didn't ?[/quote'] My friend, would we be taking about this topic in the first place if Telenor and the ilk had done everything right? Unitech MD Sanjay Chandra, an accused in the 2G scam, who got bail in end-November, was grilled by the Enforcement Directorate twice for nothing, right? You are just getting angry and name calling coz I have pointed out how blank your argument is. So no point in making a slinging match out of it. Its not that I am on Swamy's payroll and you are Unitech's. Let us look at the things you might want to agree at- 1. A fraud was done. 2. Cases were filed. 3. Arguments were made. 4. People (being MDs and Industry bigwigs) were arrested and kept behind bars for months. 5. The Supreme Court (not a chirkut sarpanch's bench) has found them guilty and cancelled licenses, not 1, not 2, but 122 licenses. These 5 things are evident even to you. So we aren't even talking prima facie anymore. It is a proven fact that these companies directly/indirectly cheated us. There is no point of talking about predictions and what could've happened and couldn't have after losing your respect, your money and your license, all at one go. If tomorrow, XYZ loses money invested in SENSEX, he cannot blame the SENSEX. He has to blame himself as it was his decision to invest, weigh the pros and cons. Similarly, the companies must've weighed theirs and now only they are to blame for losing what they have.
Clarke Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 My friend' date=' would we be taking about this topic in the first place if Telenor and the ilk had done everything right? [/quote'] How about you answer how the Indian market works that Telenor execs didn't seem to know but you do ? What sort of twisted logic is this ? Telenor invested billions in India far before Unitech MD got arrested. Its one thing to blame Unitech and another to accuse Telenor and suggesting they deserved their fate, the latter seems to be your bright idea. BTW corruption means a ghetto company ? How many companies in India don't indulge in such ghetto practices ? What name calling ? Its your self appointed name, i didn't call you moron or j@ck@$$ or something. Even though you're suggest you know better than Scandinavian telecom execs. All of the above applies to Unitech, not to Telenor. They did nothing wrong and its unfortunate that they have to deal with the punishment for no fault of theirs. What's worse is someone educated like you is ready to blame them and i bet you're not alone in the country.
achilles Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 After this long debate, let me end by saying that you've done a great job sticking to your point (not being sarcastic) and I've done good to stick to mine.
BeautifulGame Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 He doesn't have any' date=' although his alliance with BJP might be something that could work. He has his support base and it is growing[/quote'] :hysterical: Swamy support base growing :hysterical: Have u ever seen Swamy's political rally?
1983-2011 Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 :hysterical: Swamy support base growing :hysterical: Have u ever seen Swamy's political rally? :Shhh: its called "armachair fan base":giggle:
ravishingravi Posted February 10, 2012 Author Posted February 10, 2012 :Shhh: its called "armachair fan base":giggle: And with brains. Something which Kangress fans might not have the privelege of knowing.
Khalpat Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 And with brains. Something which Kangress fans might not have the privelege of knowing. Not only congress fan they are Diggi Raja fan and Rahul Baba fan also. One person comes to Jantar Mantar did non voilent protest and each and every congress supporter started personal alligation against him calling RSS man to CIA agent but never they discussed about what exactly he wants to say. Similarly here is a man who exposed 2g and many other scam and instead of giving him credit they are laughing at him. God, some times I really can not understand this whole mentallity.
surajmal Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 when this country descends into a civil war, lets see, who these psecs turn to for help because their role models will flee the country at first sign of trouble. Will it be the RSS or the green brigade? Or will it be the mao's minions? I don't if its ignorance or apathy, it is mind boggling regardless.
1983-2011 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 And with brains. Something which Kangress fans might not have the privelege of knowing. win elections then talk
Sachin=GOD Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I am no legal expert but I think they can file for a stay order against the judgment. Mariyam' date=' can you clarify if there is legal recourse available for the companies given that its the supreme court which has pronounced the order[/quote'] Most of the affected companies have already filed a review petition in the Supreme court. Just today Sistema (which operates under the MTS brand) invoked provisions of the India-Russia Bilateral Investment Treaty to "protect its investment" - Link
adi B Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Not only congress fan they are Diggi Raja fan and Rahul Baba fan also. One person comes to Jantar Mantar did non voilent protest and each and every congress supporter started personal alligation against him calling RSS man to CIA agent but never they discussed about what exactly he wants to say. Similarly here is a man who exposed 2g and many other scam and instead of giving him credit they are laughing at him. God' date=' some times I really can not understand this whole mentallity.[/quote'] :hysterical: really man these kaangressi`s are bunch of douchebags
Sachin=GOD Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 Supreme Court dismisses all review petitions against its 2G verdict NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court on Wednesday dismissed review petitions by mobile carriers impacted by the court's order in February to revoke all telecoms licences awarded in a scandal-tainted 2008 2G spectrum sale, the court's website showed. Mobile operators including Telenor and Sistema's Indian joint ventures and Indian companies Idea Cellular and Tata Teleservices that are set to lose some or all of their permits in early June had appealed to the court to review the verdict. The court, however, accepted the government's review petition for hearing on April 13. The government is seeking a review of some observations made by the court in its order, but did not challenge the licence cancellation. Link
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