Is Mahendra Singh Dhoni really the master finisher the media makes him out to be?

[vvvslaxman]

It requires ice cool temperament to pull off chases in death overs. On that score Dhoni is a great finisher without comparing him with anyone. He trusts his own ability to score even 20 runs in 50th over. There are two types of finisher. One who can manage certain amount of asking rate like 5, 6 at best 7. And One who can manage asking rate like 10, 12. Dhoni's problem is he plays both the villain and hero role sometimes. He himself pushes the asking rate towards unmanagable proportions and then he tries to pull it off. Raina and Yuvraj don't do that. When they are on song they always make sure they are well ahead of the rate with intermittent hitting.

[TalhaSyed]

If you dont want him Im sure we could take him off your hands...england style :--D

[Sooda]

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=278622

[Trichromatic]

first establish what you consider a finisher. a finisher is someone who in a run chase, comes at number 5 or later, with 50+ runs still to get and score bulk of it (lets say 30+ runs), remains not out and wins the match. by this criteria yuvraj is best with 27 won matches, dhoni comes third with 20 matches won http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_fielding_first=2;batting_positionmin1=5;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=matches;result=1;runsmin1=30;runsval1=runs;template=results;type=batting

You mean this?

[CSK Fan]

As soon as an Indian is called the best ever in anything, we have to pull him down. We Indians are pretty good at this. So a combination of our 'neutral' guys pulling their own down, and Aussie media hyping their own up, it will always be Aussies who are called best ever in everything. So Bradman is the best test player and Bevan the best ODI player, rest are pretenders Of course, the obvious excuse is to give other players their 'due' whatever that means. As if no Indians are allowed to rise over others. Calling Warne the best ever spinner never harmed McGrath's fame. Why should calling Dhoni the best finisher have anything to do with not giving credit to Gabhir or Yuvraj? We have a bunch of brilliant players and a brilliant team. They dont need to be a herd of cows, each one brings something unique to the team

[Prakat]

^+

[CG]

Can you please list the matches where the guys whom you named' date=' won games for their teams chasing a total with their side 80/5?[/quote'] its not only about chasing when we are in trouble dhoni most often has failed,symonds has great innings in first innngs World cup 2003 innings for symonds ,australia tour eng 2004,australia vs pak 2004 vb series ,aus vs india 2007 and many more in some they wereor 90-4 give or take 20 runs ,But point is he won those games.In yuvraj case-also there are many and same with bevan in world cup 2003 .dhoni has failed in those type situations.

[CG]

I think people who post such crap like in OP to prove what is the truer test of chasing are bigger morons.

I think people who cannot see beyond people they worship are even bigger morons.

[Ultimate_Game]

its not only about chasing when we are in trouble dhoni most often has failed' date='symonds has great innings in first innngs World cup 2003 innings for symonds ,australia tour eng 2004,australia vs pak 2004 vb series ,aus vs india 2007 and many more in some they were 80-3 or 90-4 give or take 20 runs ,But point is he won those games.In yuvraj case-also there are many and same with bevan in world cup 2003 .dhoni has failed in those type situations.[/quote'] You are right. Dhoni comes in and scores easy runs. Every time it's someone else who rescues us from 80/4 or scores most of the runs when Dhoni remains unbeaten. I wonder how Dhoni averages so much when he's such a cr@ppy player and others are so much better than him :hmmm:

[CG]

You are right. Dhoni comes in and scores easy runs. Every time it's someone else who rescues us from 80/4 or scores most of the runs when Dhoni remains unbeaten. I wonder how Dhoni averages so much when he's such a cr@ppy player and others are so much better than him :hmmm:

He is not a crappy player,I said in those no hope situations he has not done as well as bevan,symonds or yuvraj.

[gaurav92]

Indeed. Currently he is the best finisher in the world :hatsoff:

[CG]

Exactly! It's good to have a different view but ignoring a player's whole career and focusing on one year (2011 onwards) just to make a point is plain idiotic :haha: And even during the last year Dhoni was our best batsman and finisher against Eng' date=' won us the WC final and performed in the last 2 games in CB Series, i.e. in a small sample size there are still 5-6 instances where Dhoni actually did the job![/quote'] Same logic should be applied on sachin too,But guess people have double standards.

[Deleted_User_1]

NO!!!

[Ultimate_Game]

He is not a crappy player' date='I said in those type of situations he has not done as well as bevan,symonds or yuvraj.[/quote'] I remember the 2004 series against Pak where Dhoni saved our @$$ along with Yuvraj in almost every game. While batting he has delivered consistently for us and made sure we never faced too many of 80/4 situations. In fact I can't recall a series where Dhoni has failed throughout. As for Symonds and Yuvraj care to provide any stats or matches where they "consistently saved their teams from 80/4"? As a cricinfo article states that Dhoni has been the most successful batsman at no. 6. It doesn't take too much brain-power to figure out that no. 6 bats when 4 wkts are down so Dhoni must have been in when India were 80/4, and he must have scored runs else his average wouldn't have been heads and shoulders above other batsmen :facepalm:

[Ultimate_Game]

Same logic should be applied on sachin too' date='But guess people have double standards.[/quote'] Sachin has failed in his last 8 tests and he's 39, whereas Dhoni is 30ish and has been the best batsman this series. So what double standards are you on about? As for tests yes Dhoni doesn't deserve a spot in the team and should be dropped but again this doesn't have any bearing on his odi performances where he has been one of the best in the world.

[CG]

I remember the 2004 series against Pak where Dhoni saved our @$$ along with Yuvraj in almost every game. While batting he has delivered consistently for us and made sure we never faced too many of 80/4 situations. In fact I can't recall a series where Dhoni has failed throughout. As for Symonds and Yuvraj care to provide any stats or matches where they "consistently saved their teams from 80/4"? As a cricinfo article states that Dhoni has been the most successful batsman at no. 6. It doesn't take too much brain-power to figure out that no. 6 bats when 4 wkts are down so Dhoni must have been in when India were 80/4, and he must have scored runs else his average wouldn't have been heads and shoulders above other batsmen :facepalm:

dhoni failed us against sa in all series if you can't recall.Exactly! It's good to have a different view but ignoring a player's whole career and focusing on one year (2011 onwards) just to make a point is plain idiotic , when did sachin failed in last 8 tests ,I think sachin was one of the best players against wi and our second best batsman against australia.

[Ultimate_Game]

dhoni failed us against sa in all series if you can't recall.

Along with all others... I didn't see Yuvraj or any other player resuing us. Proves once again that if Dhoni fails we generally lose. By the way I am still waiting for "numerous" examples when Yuvraj and Symonds rescued their teams.

[CG]

Along with all others... I didn't see Yuvraj or any other player resuing us. Proves once again that if Dhoni fails we generally lose.

we won 2 matches and came close in the last in sa .we won the series in india when dhoni failed.dhoni is a great finisher but media does hype him up.i gave some example about symonds in reply to sane indian,you can search yourself about bevan innings in wc 2003 or yuvraj.

[Ultimate_Game]

we won 2 matches and came close in the last.we won the series in india when dhoni failed.

Yes we won 2 matches due to Yusuf Pathan and our bowling. I am still waiting for numerous examples of Yuvi and Symonds saving their team from 80/4 coz if you want me to list the series where Yuvi or Symonds failed, I can provide a long list. Just saying Dhoni failed in a series in SA doesn't prove anything regarding his being the best finisher in the business as every batsman will have series where he failed.

[CG]

Yes we won 2 matches due to Yusuf Pathan and our bowling. I am still waiting for numerous examples of Yuvi and Symonds saving their team from 80/4 coz if you want me to list the series where Yuvi or Symonds failed' date=' I can provide a long list. Just saying Dhoni failed in a series in SA doesn't prove anything regarding his being the best finisher in the business as every batsman will have series where he failed.[/quote'] You said you would not remember when he failed us in a series,thats why i gave the sa series as example. yuvraj-http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/297798.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/66284.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64756.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64757.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64817.html symonds- http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65238.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65643.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/66377.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65653.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64874.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/226365.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/238174.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/297798.html bevan- you do not need.