Sachin Tendulkar vs Sunil Gavaskar

[The Outsider]

So you say that Gavaskar didn't fail in that 83 test series in WI? He scored less runs than Amarnath' date=' Vegsarkar, Yashpal Sharma, Kapil and Shastri in that series. 147 of his 240 runs came in a test which was already dead for as long as dodos have been. And that means less than 100 runs in remaining 8 innings, and you think Gavaskar didn't fail in that series? Would be good if answer could be direct instead of tangential one.[/quote'] I've already written above that series was a mediocre one for Gavaskar - perhaps you could read things before asking for answers. My point is different - if you want to present Gavaskar's performance in the matches which featured Marshall, Roberts, Holding, and Garner (your benchmark of a full strength West Indies attack) you should not be quoting numbers from the entire series because there were innings which did not have all 4 in that series. On the other hand if you want to present Gavaskar's performance against the West Indies attack of 1983 not necessarily having all 4, there is no reason to exclude the home series.

[akshayxyz]

That is true when you face Irfan pathan ' date=' Praveen kumar, Vinay kumar.. not Andy roberts, Marshall, Holding, Garner :cantstop: . [b']Each bowler was lethal in their own way. Garner had a mean yorker and could produce lifting deliveries from good length. Roberts had a good bouncer. Marshall had great swing and pace.

Fair point, but you can not definitively say that its easier to survive and score against Lee+McGrath+Gillespie+Warne as compared to against 3-4 fast bowlers and vice-versa, or lets say scoring against spinners on a turning track. Besides, if you want to be regarded as most complete batsman - then there better be less variance in performance in variety of conditions/bowling (definitely above certain level, and not Afridi-esque consistency) With the kind of preparation/efforts/discipline likes of Sachin/Dravid put in - they would have adjusted to the WI-quartet too. To what extent - you will never know. Gavaskar did well against WI fast bowling, Sachin did well in most permutations of conditions/formats etc. Comparing the two is nonsene, and saying that Sachin would have failed against WI quartet, when he never got long enough chance to - is useless argument, and futile exercise. as nonsense as other time-machine arguments.

[The Outsider]

That was a memorable series for more than one reason. First test Richards absolutely ripped open Indian bowling on the last day. Second test.. someone had a bet that Greenidge/Haynes/Ricahrds combined will not score more than Sunil Gavaskar. Sunny was out for 1.. would you believe it.. Greenidge/Haynes/Richards had a combined score of 1 ( 2 out for duck) and he won the bet. Third test... 1 run to win.. that ended up being a noball lol. 4th test was on patta wicket. St.johns where lara made 375/400 Gayle made 317. Sunny was out of form. It was a flat pitch. Couldn't cash it in. Kapil dev played a blinder.

Yeah, I remember reading that! :hysterical: Was it mentioned in one of Gavaskar's books?

[Cricket Tragic]

Yeah, I remember reading that! :hysterical: Was it mentioned in one of Gavaskar's books?

Yes.

[Sid]

That was a memorable series for more than one reason. First test Richards absolutely ripped open Indian bowling on the last day. Second test.. someone had a bet that Greenidge/Haynes/Ricahrds combined will not score more than Sunil Gavaskar. Sunny was out for 1.. would you believe it.. Greenidge/Haynes/Richards had a combined score of 1 ( 2 out for duck) and he won the bet. Third test... 1 run to win.. that ended up being a noball lol. 4th test was on patta wicket. St.johns where lara made 375/400 Gayle made 317. Sunny was out of form. It was a flat pitch. Couldn't cash it in. Kapil dev played a blinder.

Yeah I remember Tony Cozier narrating this story during India's tour of Windies 2006.

[vvvslaxman]

Fair point, but you can not say that its easier to survive and score against Lee+McGrath+Gillespie+Warne as compared to against 3-4 fast bowlers. Besides, if you want to be regarded as most complete batsman - then there better be less variance in performance in variety of conditions/bowling (definitely above certain level, and not Afridi-esque consistency) With the kind of preparation/efforts/discipline likes of Sachin/Dravid put in - they would have adjusted to the WI-quartet too. To what extent - you will never know. Gavaskar did well against WI fast bowling, Sachin did well in most permutations of conditions/formats etc. Comparing the two is nonsene, and saying that Sachin would have failed against WI quartet, when he never got long enough chance to - is useless argument, and futile exercise. as nonsense as other time-machine arguments.

I am not saying sachin wouldn't have survived. I just disagreed that it is not simple to conclude just because all 4 bowlers are right arm pace bowlers they are easy to get used to. Otherwise.. i am not comparing anybody.. i already mentioned.. it is unfair to compare an opener with a middle order batsman.

[zen]

^ Not really from a comparison point of view' date=' but [b']from the team's perspective it would be a good idea for Tendulkar to move to the number 3 spot and allow the newcomers to settle in lower down the order first. India is not playing a test away from home for the next 2 years anyway, so it's not that batting at 3 would be much more challenging than batting at 4. Right now, India would have to throw in a newcomer at 3, move Kohli to 3 before he has fully adapted to test cricket, or have Laxman, who should not be playing anymore, at the position.

yep, that's the underlying theme: #3 being such a key postion and him being the most experienced batsman, may be it's time to move up to #3 .... and like you said, after the tour to SL, the next few series will be at home so nothing much for the little master to lose but a lot for team Ind to gain Many of the top batsman like Lara, Viv, etc have batted at this tough position and been successful

[akshayxyz]

I am not saying sachin wouldn't have survived. I just disagreed that it is not simple to conclude just because all 4 bowlers are right arm pace bowlers they are easy to get used to. Otherwise.. i am not comparing anybody.. i already mentioned.. it is unfair to compare an opener with a middle order batsman.

I just highlighted one advantage, did not mean/suggest that it would outweigh the obvious difficulties.

[Raghav_12]

I've already written above that series was a mediocre one for Gavaskar - perhaps you could read things before asking for answers. My point is different - if you want to present Gavaskar's performance in the matches which featured Marshall, Roberts, Holding, and Garner (your benchmark of a full strength West Indies attack) you should not be quoting numbers from the entire series because there were innings which did not have all 4 in that series. On the other hand if you want to present Gavaskar's performance against the West Indies attack of 1983 not necessarily having all 4, there is no reason to exclude the home series.

You were reading too much into all that. I was not questioning Gavaskar's credentials against fast bowling. I was mere highlighting the point that everybody has some kind of holes in their reputation and so does Gavaskar and it was a bit of naive to think that Gavaskar was in-fallible against fast bowling. Where did I say I wanted to see Gavaskar's performance against these 4? But, you can't deny that in test series WI fielded one of the best attack of all time or may be simply best pace attack and Gavaskar failed in that. I wasn't there to see that time, but I am sure there would have been lot of expectations from Gavaskar ahead of that series and people would have expected a great contest looking at Gavaskar's reputation and previous records.

[Lurker]

Nobody can deny that Gavaskar has been one of the best player of fast bowling ever and he proved this many times in his career. But anybody who is saying that Gavaskar didn't fail in that series must be kidding themselves. However' date=' in following series, when WI came to India, Gavaskar proved that previous WI tour was just an aberration and nobody can question his prowess against fast bowling.[/quote'] Wow! What pearl of wisdom there. Do you realize for a second what a 360 you have made in a matter of few posts? You are the one who started with how Gavaskar was a failure then when dug further you are now coming back with a failed in one series, didnt fail in other so nobody can question his prowess against fast bowling. This ***** cant be made up. Trust bhakts to come up with nonsense. By the way 500 run waala series is still awaited. Specially since you ask people to give straight answers and not go tangential :giggle:

[vvvslaxman]

You were reading too much into all that. I was not questioning Gavaskar's credentials against fast bowling. I was mere highlighting the point that everybody has some kind of holes in their reputation and so does Gavaskar and it was a bit of naive to think that Gavaskar was in-fallible against fast bowling. Where did I say I wanted to see Gavaskar's performance against these 4? But, you can't deny that in test series WI fielded one of the best attack of all time or may be simply best pace attack and Gavaskar failed in that. I wasn't there to see that time, but I am sure there would have been lot of expectations from Gavaskar ahead of that series and people would have expected a great contest looking at Gavaskar's reputation and previous records.

On the contrary.. not much was expected as India left Pakistan after humiliation. He ran into a bit of bad patch he lost his wicket too early.. But Gavaskar's important moment in that series India downing West Indies in a one dayer for the first time ever. It was unheard of.. boy Kapil played a blinder or what.. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64209.html

[Yoda-esque]

Thread on SRT and all the usual suspects are back..:hysterical:

[mhr123]

Thats one way to look at it. Sure. The other is that he is consistently coming second best to Don, Viv and now Sunny. But hey whatever rocks your boat mh:--D

Luks paee.. meine doosre thread mei bhi bhai logo se pooch raha thaa ke kia kese ne gym mei kese ne thudaa saar par dumbells gira de hai kia ... yah phir bihaar se wapis aane ke baad baahki baahki baate kar rahee hai ... jo bhi hoo these days ur PJ's are threatening most of the trollers...:giggle:

[mhr123]

So do u all want to prove if SRT was in Sunny's era he wud have failed ????

[Old guy]

Thread on SRT and all the usual suspects are back..:hysterical:

i dont see most of them in match threads :dontknow:

[vvvslaxman]

Thread on SRT and all the usual suspects are back..:hysterical:

when is IPl circus starting?

[akshayxyz]

i dont see most of them in match threads :dontknow:

dhakkan...at least not me/vvs... even if I am not posting, I almost always follow match threads, and many times contribute too....now is the time - read last year's WC-final thread.

[Old guy]

dhakkan...at least not me/vvs... even if I am not posting' date=' I almost always follow match threads, and many times contribute too....now is the time - read last year's WC-final thread.[/quote'] i wasnt talking abt u :hysterical: i have no problem if people defend sachin.. hell its ur opinion .. state it. no problem :P but i ve seen many people here now (from both sides) hwo are jsut obsessed with these topics and generally dont do anything else :dontknow:

[Old guy]

btw i did read those threads good trolling skills :nice:

[akshayxyz]

i wasnt talking abt u :hysterical: i have no problem if people defend sachin.. hell its ur opinion .. state it. no problem :P but i ve seen many people here now (from both sides) hwo are jsut obsessed with these topics and generally dont do anything else :dontknow:

Most are trolls, some intentional, some un-intentional. More importantly, the so called critics just fit this line perfectly.. "aek taang past mein, aur aek future mein, tabhi ham apne present par mooot rahey hain." [ Gavaskar ne 80s mein WI kee maari thi, Bradman ne 99.94 banaye thhe, - future mein apni batting ka kya hoga, ek budhao young generations kee jagah rok ke baitha hai.... that is why I do not enjoy/appreciate certain budhao who is re-writing history today - for quite some time already. ]