In and around Delhi, cops blame rapes on women: Tehelka investigation with NDTV

[beetle]

Because if society kept on thinking like you did India would still be in the stone age. India would never be a safe country for women because of apologist or realists like you. The day educated people like you condemn such acts instead of making excuses on why and how India is unsafe fit women' date=' we will reach places. After all if women and some men didn't take initiative against sati, we would still have it on a large scale today.[/quote'] Agree Such justification from an educated poster is what encourages the cops to hold on to these barbaric ideas. The fact is that rape is not entirely just about the mentality or ground reality of the country. Even in the most liberal countries there are men who will not rape ...ever.No matter what . These countries also have men who will rape if they think it is justified....the justifications may vary.Women in the family,children or so called modest women may be `non justified '. Then there are ones who will justify raping students, friends, strangers children. This country too has men of all kind.Men who will never justify rape and others who think that they have the right to justify something as barbaric. If posters like ravishingravi can have such a view then we do live in a sad place.

[beetle]

The question is not about taking the initiative. The question is about firstly accepting that we are in a stone age. Okay now that we have crossed step 1, we can talk about step 2, enforcing the law and order situation and protecting women. First stop the bleeding and then perform the surgery. Now if society kept thinking like you did that let us risk the rape, we can cry cry foul later and go for dharna and cover 2 days of 24 hour news cycle till the next rape happens which would be in next 10 minutes then i would rather be in stone age but better law enforcement for time being. So I would say misguided thought processes like these which do not understand the importance of acceptance of current scenario, precaution that one needs to take and then change it over a period of time are greater danger to women and society at large. The outrage has to be against the lack of law and order. The Indian mentality will take time to evolve. But I wouldnt accept one additional cycle of rape and outrage as an agent of change. Cause it will not change one single thing.

So till the men get over their urge to rape and some others to justify the rape ,women should cover up and stay at home?How long do you think the rapists will take to change?How much time before women can breathe easy? How about changing your view that rape is never ever justified.Not even by men who have opted to stay in the mental stone age. It is amazing that woman are blamed for changing too fast. Are the men not changing. Is there no difference in the way men's lifestyle has changed.Why resist change only for women. How do these men who embrace change in every other field of life so heartily be allowed to resist change when it comes to their sick mentality?

[beetle]

If we don't keep raping you for wearing less clothing then one day you will be out wearing nothing. then where will we be? Wait, what? ....ok. No more raping shaping. :shakehands:

This is not funny.

[beetle]

I dont believe I put my point across. But for every rape, every violent incidence against women, I have always seen at least one person like you coming out and blaming the woman and trying to be a realist. Right from my childhood and nothing has changed till date From the way of treating black as second rate citizens to women working outside home, any changes which happened were always two-fold and agressive. Blacks and women themselves came out despite all dangers to them and supported the initiatives. It was considered dangerous for blacks to rise above their station and be rich. Yet they did take that first step for scoiety to change. Similarly same arguments were used for women working outside home, its dangerous, women wont be safe. Yet women did take the chance The second part was society uniformly condenmned any action to the contrary. When blacks were attacked, no one said, its dangerous for blacks to earn money, instead they condenmned the deed, similarly when employers did not hire women citing safety, they were condenmned till they did.

:hatsoff::hatsoff:

[Lord]

Lahori logic at work here to justify rape:facepalm:

[Crookbond]

In a civilized society, there should be few things which are inexpiable. Rape is definitely one of them.

[ravishingravi]

So till the men get over their urge to rape and some others to justify the rape ,women should cover up and stay at home?How long do you think the rapists will take to change?How much time before women can breathe easy? How about changing your view that rape is never ever justified.Not even by men who have opted to stay in the mental stone age. It is amazing that woman are blamed for changing too fast. Are the men not changing. Is there no difference in the way men's lifestyle has changed.Why resist change only for women. How do these men who embrace change in every other field of life so heartily be allowed to resist change when it comes to their sick mentality?

If that was what you think I was suggesting, then with your iq you can be unarmed and still very dangerous. That is all one can say for it.

[beetle]

There was some heated discussion going on today on this issue. I have always felt that the neo feminists have polarised every debate beyond any reasonable limits. While, it is shameful, we have to be in complete denial that it reflects the mindset of society, men and women included. On the question of validity of this mindset, I say it is a grey area. We are not San Francisco or Paris. We are not quite Somalia either. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. It is by and large not a safe country for women, revealing clothes or not. So, if a woman completely ignorant of the country she lives in tries to wear her sexuality on her sleeve, then yes she is asking for it. But let me make it clear, it is a *****y situation but it is a ground reality. Yes it is not the kind of society we aspire for but given the circumstances, we have to take absolute precaution. Don't want to pass a sweeping judgement. But I absolute this hypocritical outrage displayed by some on cops comments. It is the Indian mindset and it is not completely unjustified.

With your high IQ you choose to have this view...what a waste.That is all one can say for it.

[ravishingravi]

I dont believe I put my point across. But for every rape, every violent incidence against women, I have always seen at least one person like you coming out and blaming the woman and trying to be a realist. Right from my childhood and nothing has changed till date From the way of treating black as second rate citizens to women working outside home, any changes which happened were always two-fold and agressive. Blacks and women themselves came out despite all dangers to them and supported the initiatives. It was considered dangerous for blacks to rise above their station and be rich. Yet they did take that first step for scoiety to change. Similarly same arguments were used for women working outside home, its dangerous, women wont be safe. Yet women did take the chance The second part was society uniformly condenmned any action to the contrary. When blacks were attacked, no one said, its dangerous for blacks to earn money, instead they condenmned the deed, similarly when employers did not hire women citing safety, they were condenmned till they did. My point is, if you keep on believing in a relaity, it will become a reality. Keep on talking ablut how India is unsafe and it will remain unsafe. Women do have necissity to be in all sorts of places and they do not invite danger. But unanimously all the media, all the news, all reports should condenm the deed and not the women. If even one voice like yours comes out after every such deed, we will continue to remain in the stone age for ever, nothing is going to change. change only comes when a country, a society, a multi-national, an individual stops making excuses and blaming external factors and genuinely trying to change things

Fair enough. I think this post was much clearer. Let me again re emphasise that for me the law and order is situation is bigger oncern than the mentality. But let us first get our priorities straight as to what should be irate st in order. If my neighbour is a risky place after 8, I would suggest it to my friend or sister or whoever. Now I know it is not a great situation but it is still a situation. And I don't believe one can have an ostrich idealistic view in resolving this matter. As conveyed earlier, it is a *****y situation but acceptance of it is not apology. Acceptance is not a tacit act always. I think. Y point is fairly clear and protection of women is as much my concern as anybody else's. But it is interesting again how a different approach is being extended to being regressive and anti women. Establishes what I have been saying about the neo feminists.

[Alchemist]

@ravisinghravi I have read your posts on different topics. They are very thoughtful and you come across a deep thinker. On that background, your post here was a little bit of shock to me. May be you are not trying to say it but your post seemed to have a tinge of justifying the thinking of these cops. May be you want to say something else on a more deeper level. But the post definately comes across in a different way. Again, as I said earlier, your posts are thoughtful and I don't think you jusify rape or try to defend the cops.

[beetle]

Fair enough. I think this post was much clearer. Let me again re emphasise that for me the law and order is situation is bigger oncern than the mentality. But let us first get our priorities straight as to what should be irate st in order. If my neighbour is a risky place after 8, I would suggest it to my friend or sister or whoever. Now I know it is not a great situation but it is still a situation. And I don't believe one can have an ostrich idealistic view in resolving this matter. As conveyed earlier, it is a *****y situation but acceptance of it is not apology. Acceptance is not a tacit act always. I think. Y point is fairly clear and protection of women is as much my concern as anybody else's. But it is interesting again how a different approach is being extended to being regressive and anti women. Establishes what I have been saying about the neo feminists.

Can you suggest some safe places for women?Women have been picked up from roadsides at different times of the day.Girls raped in school,inside their own home by neighbors. In trains,cars buses and now even raped iby autowallahs Today there was news about a three year old girl being picked up from her mundan ceremony and raped then killed.Where exactly is this safe place where the sisters,mothers,wives and daughters can be kept safe till the mentality of rapists change?

[Yoda-esque]

Also the question to be asked is why it happens more in one particular region as opposed to others.I think Delhi as a city is a Power-hungry city and hence the sons of these so called powerful people think they can get away with everything and anything and they do so to a large extent. We need to really have strong laws, as simple as that.

[Crookbond]

Also the question to be asked is why it happens more in one particular region as opposed to others.I think Delhi as a city is a Power-hungry city and hence the sons of these so called powerful people think they can get away with everything and anything and they do so to a large extent. We need to really have strong laws, as simple as that.

This.

[straighttalk]

WTF. Wearing revealing clothes doesn't mean the girl is inviting rape. A girl who is wearing jeans and top is just as unsafe as the one wearing a dress. We live in a society which teaches women to be careful not to get raped instead of teaching men NOT TO RAPE. Its sad.

if u have a costly expensive laptop..would you like to walk home alone at dark advertising ur laptop. common sense says no bcos u dont want to attract unwanted attention. that said the fault lies with the person doing the crime. i find it surprising that people use common sense to avoid dark alleys, bad spots in the cities but have a big problem in undestanding that given the scene in our country, it might make more sense to not put urself in the spot light. is it desirable. hell no. a person should have the right to wear whatever he or she wants. but so does a person who can walk anywhere with his expensive stuff. but no..he is much more clever and knows what to avoid. the male brain is one dimensional and it is visual. the sight of a scantily clad woman (who might be wearing just to feel good or for her partner) evokes emotions in a man, which most people are able to control and ignore after a while. but in some rapist, it spurs him into action. does that mean..ru safe wearing salwar, hell no. where 80 yr old women and 5 yr old kids are raped, i can only say its safer. and how would you teach men not to rape. isnt it same as not stealing or murder. people know its wrong but still do it. a person who wants to rape will rape until he is caught, except that when he chooses his victim, it makes more sense to not give him the opportunity..and that applies to dress, moving in groups and all.

[straighttalk]

Can you suggest some safe places for women?Women have been picked up from roadsides at different times of the day.Girls raped in school' date='inside their own home by neighbors. In trains,cars buses and now even raped iby autowallahs Today there was news about a three year old girl being picked up from her mundan ceremony and raped then killed.Where exactly is this safe place where the sisters,mothers,wives and daughters can be kept safe till the mentality of rapists change?[/quote'] rape is a crime of passion which has existed since ancient times..its an convoluted and sick expression of male sexuality. unfortunately ur right that there have been instances of rapes in places which are supposedly safe. a covered up body does not make u immune to rape..i agree with it. but walking alone, being promiscuous, dressing revealingly..does give signals to the man. msot men are gentlemen and would try to have a cosensual sex. and some does not. that is where she is put at risk. she is not asking for it but she is attracting the attention of a rapist. a rapist looks for opportunity and target. in the absence of choices, he chooses the first available target at the earliest opportunity. and unfortunately unless he is caught he wont stop. but what a woman can do, is being clever and avoiding being the first choice target. jsut as u avoid flaunting ur jewellery or laptop while coming home alone.prudence. being in group, travelling by cars while going to parties... being with friends in clubs and all.

[straighttalk]

It has got to do with both the sick Delhi mentality towards females as well as the fact that Delhi Police is one of the laziest and crappiest police force in the entire nation. No offense to anyone but DP has either the UP bhaiyyas, the Jatts, Gujjars etc. in their force and I have seen their way of talking and behavior. The only thing they are bothered about is "extra income" and don't give a damn about the public. And their police stations as a whole are corrupt and they are not worried to discuss and demand bribe for even registering FIRs in their police stations. The only situations where they easily take down FIRs is if you go with a VIP or higher officer who are their senior. Otherwise their system is corrupt from bottom to top. I don't see it changing it either in the future unless there is rule to fire all corrupt and lazy govt. employees in the future and to replace them by genuine and honest people. BTW how is a jeans and top revealing dress. That is far more modest than even the saree and covers nearly the whole body. I am not sure which moron made saree the most modest dress whereas it is far more revealing compared to jeans/top or salwaar/kameez.

that depends on the type of saree and type of jeans and top

[straighttalk]

This.

what is the max prison sentence for rape? life imprisonment, public humiliation, castration should be the order. rape+murder should be capital punishment. in my mind.. a premeditated murder or rape should be capital punishment worthy. i am a great supporter of capital punishment as i dont believe in reforms for such individuals. its a waste of money. eye for an eye should be the order of the day.

[beetle]

what is the max prison sentence for rape? life imprisonment, public humiliation, castration should be the order. rape+murder should be capital punishment. in my mind.. a premeditated murder or rape should be capital punishment worthy. i am a great supporter of capital punishment as i dont believe in reforms for such individuals. its a waste of money. eye for an eye should be the order of the day.

Agree. +capital punishment for gang rapes too. Castration and public humiliation will definitely act as a deterrent. More effective than jail.

[Tiger80]

if u have a costly expensive laptop..would you like to walk home alone at dark advertising ur laptop. common sense says no bcos u dont want to attract unwanted attention. that said the fault lies with the person doing the crime. i find it surprising that people use common sense to avoid dark alleys, bad spots in the cities but have a big problem in undestanding that given the scene in our country, it might make more sense to not put urself in the spot light. is it desirable. hell no. a person should have the right to wear whatever he or she wants. but so does a person who can walk anywhere with his expensive stuff. but no..he is much more clever and knows what to avoid. the male brain is one dimensional and it is visual. the sight of a scantily clad woman (who might be wearing just to feel good or for her partner) evokes emotions in a man, which most people are able to control and ignore after a while. but in some rapist, it spurs him into action. does that mean..ru safe wearing salwar, hell no. where 80 yr old women and 5 yr old kids are raped, i can only say its safer. and how would you teach men not to rape. isnt it same as not stealing or murder. people know its wrong but still do it. a person who wants to rape will rape until he is caught, except that when he chooses his victim, it makes more sense to not give him the opportunity..and that applies to dress, moving in groups and all.

+1

[akshayxyz]

if u have a costly expensive laptop..would you like to walk home alone at dark advertising ur laptop. common sense says no bcos u dont want to attract unwanted attention. that said the fault lies with the person doing the crime. i find it surprising that people use common sense to avoid dark alleys, bad spots in the cities but have a big problem in undestanding that given the scene in our country, it might make more sense to not put urself in the spot light. is it desirable. hell no. a person should have the right to wear whatever he or she wants. but so does a person who can walk anywhere with his expensive stuff. but no..he is much more clever and knows what to avoid. the male brain is one dimensional and it is visual. the sight of a scantily clad woman (who might be wearing just to feel good or for her partner) evokes emotions in a man, which most people are able to control and ignore after a while. but in some rapist, it spurs him into action. does that mean..ru safe wearing salwar, hell no. where 80 yr old women and 5 yr old kids are raped, i can only say its safer. and how would you teach men not to rape. isnt it same as not stealing or murder. people know its wrong but still do it. a person who wants to rape will rape until he is caught, except that when he chooses his victim, it makes more sense to not give him the opportunity..and that applies to dress, moving in groups and all.

++ I am not holding victim fully responsible. But, in a society/locality where even cops are also of the 'backward' mentality, then its better to adjust yourself as per "law(lessness) of the land". You can't teach/change the cops/society in a month or two, it might take a generation or two to change. Until then (actually all the times) one has to develop the sense of "situation awareness" (very generic term, but applicable in every walk of life.).