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How do you define manhood?

flamy

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vvvslaxman Grand Master

vvvslaxman

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http://queertoday.blogspot.com/2007/11/beware-of-mankind-project.html Beware of The ManKind Project The ManKind Project calls itself a " progressive men's organization striving to be increasingly inclusive and affirming of cultural differences." But several people who have attended their program have a different story. The cult-like group has "trainings" around the world including Springfield, MA. Wayne Besen is reporting that several anti-gay/ex-gay organizations are heavily promoting the ManKind Project for its emphasis on finding your masculinity. This cult-like national program is a $650 weekend boot camp where participants mostly straight - are greeted by large, intimidating men dressed in dark clothing and faces painted black. During their stay, the men are forced to take cold showers, survive on about four hours sleep, and subsist on very little food. In follow-up meetings, the activities include shaving another manÃÔ face, kidnapping a member of another camp group and changing clothes with other men. The idea is to help them get in-touch with their feelings and uncover and heal deep wounds that are barriers to successful lives. The alternative publication, The Houston Press, uncovered a letter Michael Scinto wrote to the Madison County Texas sheriffÃÔ office, just prior to committing suicide allegedly as a result of the boot camp. The Scinto family has filed a lawsuit against The ManKind Project, while the deceased manÃÔ letter to the sheriff claims the New Warrior program practiced bizarre rituals that include: 1. Blindfolded walking tours in the nude 2. People blowing sage smoke in his face while 50 or so naked men danced around candles 3. Men sitting in a circle discussing their sexual histories while passing a wooden dildo called ŵhe **** 4. Naked men beating cooked chickens with a hammer In the Houston Press article, the wife of one of the men who attended discussed why her husband eventually rejected the group. Å´o, everyone was sitting Indian-style in a big circle in the lodge when the man leading the group said, If you wish, you may reach over and grab your brothers dick. If your brother doesnÃÕ want your hand there, he can remove it. Well, my husband told me he just froze. And, from that point on, he just wanted out. The ManKind Project called the allegations false and Å×indictive. :cantstop:
flamy Apprentice

flamy

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http://queertoday.blogspot.com/2007/11/beware-of-mankind-project.html Beware of The ManKind Project The ManKind Project calls itself a " progressive men's organization striving to be increasingly inclusive and affirming of cultural differences." But several people who have attended their program have a different story. The cult-like group has "trainings" around the world including Springfield, MA. Wayne Besen is reporting that several anti-gay/ex-gay organizations are heavily promoting the ManKind Project for its emphasis on finding your masculinity. This cult-like national program is a $650 weekend boot camp where participants mostly straight - are greeted by large, intimidating men dressed in dark clothing and faces painted black. During their stay, the men are forced to take cold showers, survive on about four hours sleep, and subsist on very little food. In follow-up meetings, the activities include shaving another manÃÔ face, kidnapping a member of another camp group and changing clothes with other men. The idea is to help them get in-touch with their feelings and uncover and heal deep wounds that are barriers to successful lives. The alternative publication, The Houston Press, uncovered a letter Michael Scinto wrote to the Madison County Texas sheriffÃÔ office, just prior to committing suicide allegedly as a result of the boot camp. The Scinto family has filed a lawsuit against The ManKind Project, while the deceased manÃÔ letter to the sheriff claims the New Warrior program practiced bizarre rituals that include: 1. Blindfolded walking tours in the nude 2. People blowing sage smoke in his face while 50 or so naked men danced around candles 3. Men sitting in a circle discussing their sexual histories while passing a wooden dildo called ŵhe **** 4. Naked men beating cooked chickens with a hammer In the Houston Press article, the wife of one of the men who attended discussed why her husband eventually rejected the group. Å´o, everyone was sitting Indian-style in a big circle in the lodge when the man leading the group said, If you wish, you may reach over and grab your brothers dick. If your brother doesnÃÕ want your hand there, he can remove it. Well, my husband told me he just froze. And, from that point on, he just wanted out. The ManKind Project called the allegations false and Å×indictive. :cantstop:
Haha, yes. I read this before attending also. I can attest from personal experience that it is not the way it is written above. I won't say more because I intend to honor my agreement of confidentiality.
flamy Apprentice

flamy

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I completely expected the kind of responses I see on this thread. And, this is one of the biggest challenges we face as men. This is the conditioning we are born into as men.

  • Showing emotions is girly.
  • Asking for support is weak.
  • Real love cannot exist between men.
  • Somehow, by default, we automatically know what it means to be a man.

Do we ever take the time to question our beliefs? Ideas that we take as granted? Let's just ask ourselves how difficult it is to be open with another man. Even with your best friend. How many of us have said "I love you" to our best male friends? What stops us? Is there not love? Or, is it just a fear of ridicule? Men are afraid of love from another men. This is the basic truth of today's men. And, I see this general lack of trust magnified among Indian men. For example, the other day in the nightclub, I met a desi guy. We made small talk and then I went on meeting other people. Then, when I was dancing, I saw this guy was hovering around my group. I beckoned him inwards, made him part of the group and then asked him how his night was going and if he was feeling good. The look in his eye told me he was feeling that he was being ridiculed. I understood and told him right there that it is OK for him to be shocked at a total stranger (a man) caring about how he feels. But, he better get used to it if he hangs around with me :)

Crookbond Newbie

Crookbond

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I completely expected the kind of responses I see on this thread. And, this is one of the biggest challenges we face as men. This is the conditioning we are born into as men.
  • Showing emotions is girly.
  • Asking for support is weak.
  • Real love cannot exist between men.
  • Somehow, by default, we automatically know what it means to be a man.

Do we ever take the time to question our beliefs? Ideas that we take as granted? Let's just ask ourselves how difficult it is to be open with another man. Even with your best friend. How many of us have said "I love you" to our best male friends? What stops us? Is there not love? Or, is it just a fear of ridicule? Men are afraid of love from another men. This is the basic truth of today's men. And, I see this general lack of trust magnified among Indian men. For example, the other day in the nightclub, I met a desi guy. We made small talk and then I went on meeting other people. Then, when I was dancing, I saw this guy was hovering around my group. I beckoned him inwards, made him part of the group and then asked him how his night was going and if he was feeling good. The look in his eye told me he was feeling that he was being ridiculed. I understood and told him right there that it is OK for him to be shocked at a total stranger (a man) caring about how he feels. But, he better get used to it if he hangs around with me :)

I concur with what you're trying to say. I don't think there's a "set of guidelines" or stereotypes. You can be man and do X (the perception) or the opposite of X. It doesn't affect "manhood".
yoda Newbie

yoda

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Haha' date=' yes. I read this before attending also. I can attest from personal experience that it is not the way it is written above.[b'] I won't say more because I intend to honor my agreement of confidentiality.
I have my suspicious about any group which needs it's members to maintain confidentiality. What is there to hide?
flamy Apprentice

flamy

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For men who are interested in Men's Work - a good starting point are the two books: Fire in the Belly by Sam Keen Iron John by Robert Bly

flamy Apprentice

flamy

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I have my suspicious about any group which needs it's members to maintain confidentiality. What is there to hide?
You might not grasp this when I say it now, but it is secret for the sake of being secret. Initiation demands ambiguity. It is up to the boy to choose fear or love in the face of ambiguity. Trust is how we respond with Love to ambiguity. And all Love begins with self-Love. So, keeping things secret is an invitation to the boy to trust in himself and older men. The first rite of initiation must begin with trust, it is integral. Also, by stepping into this with just a little idea of what actually goes on is an attempt at recreating the original initiation rituals of indigenous peoples all over the world. Boys at 12 are forcefully "kidnapped" from the Mother's world and thrown into the Father's world where they learn the ways of men and masculinity. Boys grow to understand that there is Love in the Father's eyes also. Not the same flavor as that of the Mother. Father's love, Masculine Love is Fierce Love. I see my brother in a rut, sabotaging his life, not holding himself accountable and living with a sense of purposelessness, I will kick his ass, slap his face, wake him up with Fierce unrelenting Love. And, I'll stay. I'll always stay.
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