Soldier memorial desecrated

[Crookbond]

I mean people need to live in Mumbai to understand what Shiv Sena does. You can not live in like San Francisco and claim for evidence. :facepalm: One of my relatives is a Shiv Sena Shakla Pramukh and even I am still vehemently against their policies. I know what SS does when things go against them. They are also hypocrites of the highest order. To prove Lurker's point, remember the time when they went after Sachin Tendulkar for saying Mumbai is for all India? They will not even spare the Marathi speaking population for it. There are other examples to, but I leave it to you to dig them out.

[The Outsider]

I mean people need to live in Mumbai to understand what Shiv Sena does. You can not live in like San Francisco and claim for evidence. :facepalm: One of my relatives is a Shiv Sena Shakla Pramukh and even I am still vehemently against their policies. I know what SS does when things go against them. They are also hypocrites of the highest order. To prove Lurker's point, remember the time when they went after Sachin Tendulkar for saying Mumbai is for all India? They will not even spare the Marathi speaking population for it. There are other examples to, but I leave it to you to dig them out.

You won't have to go far. There is a thread right adjacent to this one where they have bagged Asha Bhosle - can't get more Marathi than Bhosle or Mangeshkar even if you tried.

[seedhi]

Dude. This is why discussion with you goes stale after a while. You simply refuse to concede anything that goes against your philosphy, even if it is the truth. Tell you what, show me any, and I mean ANY, politician in India who has managed to have cine-stars (for example) prostrate in front of him, or else their movies would be shut down because they were not in line with Thackeray's (Bal, Udhav & Raj) narrative. You can pick Amitabh, Aamir, Salman, Sanjay Dutt etc etc etc. Go on show me anything similar.

So according to you, since some cine-stars sometimes bow down to Bal Thakeray's dictats, the Congress-NCP govt should not be held responsible for not providing security (plethora of terrorist attacks + Azad Maidan), planned development (crumbling infrastructure in Mumbai), agricultural planning (thousands of farmer suicides) and for indulging in huge corruption ? This is extremely convoluted logic, simply to absolve the Congress-NCP for their mess up. As a counter example, for 15 years Lalu Yadav also indulged in the worst abuse of political might, but that didnt stop Nitish Kumar from focusing on development and law and order.

[seedhi]

I mean people need to live in Mumbai to understand what Shiv Sena does. You can not live in like San Francisco and claim for evidence. :facepalm: One of my relatives is a Shiv Sena Shakla Pramukh and even I am still vehemently against their policies. I know what SS does when things go against them. They are also hypocrites of the highest order. To prove Lurker's point, remember the time when they went after Sachin Tendulkar for saying Mumbai is for all India? They will not even spare the Marathi speaking population for it. There are other examples to, but I leave it to you to dig them out.

How does any of this PREVENT the Congress-NCP (which has been in power for 12 yrs) from providing security, development, stopping farmer suicides, improving the infrastructure and giving a clean government? Shiv Sena is NOT in power for heaven's sake.

[Sachin=GOD]

Any evidence of this "continuous opposition" to govt policies? And obviously the opposition is not expected to support the govt everytime. Secondly' date= there are states where the govt has performed in spite of all opposition. In Gujarat, Modi has faced opposition from Congress, the central govt, so-called activists and even from the US govt, but still he has performed. In Orissa, Naveen Patnaik has performed. Nitish has performed in Bihar. So this argument of opposition obstruction holds little water, the root cause is misgovernance.

You do realize that there is a difference between "opposing" someone and burning buses/stopping trains/beating up people/stopping release of films of certain stars/threatening people of a certain country etc etc. What SS is doing is not opposing Cong/NCP but rather plain and simple gundagardi. You give examples of Bihar - IIRC in 2010 no opposition party won enough seats to even be in a position to officially nominate someone as Leader of the Opposition in the Assembly ( Lalu won 22 while Paswan/Cong were reduced to single digits out of 243 seats) - kind if hard for parties with around 30 seats between them to create a viable opposition, isn't it ? :giggle: I agree that the Cong/NCP Govt has done nothing in the last 10-12 years to improve the situation in Maharashtra but saying that the argument of opposition obstruction (gundagardi) holds little water is wrong considering the kind of opposition faced by Cong/NCP. If BJP/SS can get their act together and select a good leader then I am sure they will easily win the next Assembly election. In fact the only reason why Cong/NCP, despite not doing much for 5 years, still retained power in 2009 was because BJP/SS couldn't establish themselves as a credible alternative.

[Lurker]

So according to you, since some cine-stars sometimes bow down to Bal Thakeray's dictats, the Congress-NCP govt should not be held responsible for not providing security (plethora of terrorist attacks + Azad Maidan), planned development (crumbling infrastructure in Mumbai), agricultural planning (thousands of farmer suicides) and for indulging in huge corruption ? This is extremely convoluted logic, simply to absolve the Congress-NCP for their mess up. As a counter example, for 15 years Lalu Yadav also indulged in the worst abuse of political might, but that didnt stop Nitish Kumar from focusing on development and law and order.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Sachin=GOD]

So according to you, since some cine-stars sometimes bow down to Bal Thakeray's dictats, the Congress-NCP govt should not be held responsible for not providing security (plethora of terrorist attacks + Azad Maidan), planned development (crumbling infrastructure in Mumbai), agricultural planning (thousands of farmer suicides) and for indulging in huge corruption ? This is extremely convoluted logic, simply to absolve the Congress-NCP for their mess up. As a counter example, for 15 years Lalu Yadav also indulged in the worst abuse of political might, but that didnt stop Nitish Kumar from focusing on development and law and order.

for those 15 years Lalu WAS in power. So according to your example it should be the SS/BJP who should focus on development to make sure that Cong/NCP don't win again. But I haven't seen that happening. In fact if anything, its the opposite - SS is becoming more and more out of control with the passage of time.

[The Outsider]

Off topic, but I usually enjoy discussing politics with seedhi even though we have diametrically opposite views on most things. But his posts over the last couple of days have made no sense even from a right wing perspective. Has BB taken over the account?

[seedhi]

for those 15 years Lalu WAS in power. So according to your example it should be the SS/BJP who should focus on development to make sure that Cong/NCP don't win again. But I haven't seen that happening. In fact if anything' date=' its the opposite - SS is becoming more and more out of control with the passage of time.[/quote']Whatever SS-BJP may or may not have done as opposition, for the last 12 yrs it is the Congress-NCP in power and the lack of governance has to be blamed primarily on the ruling combine, not the opposition. I think the whole discussion can be settled very easily through the following simple question: Who do you blame as primarily responsible for the decline of Mumbai/Maharashtra over the decade or so: the Congress-NCP or SS-BJP? My answer: Primary responsibility lies with Congress-NCP as the ruling combine, and most of the blame goes to them. If asked to quantify, I would say 90% blame to Congress-NCP and 10% to SS-BJP.

[Prakat]

Moral responsibility lies with the government if you live by an enlightened code. But on the ground it isn't hard to see the hooligans running amock in the guise of a political party claiming to fight for maratha pride and rights hijacking the city by sheer numbers.

[asterix]

Years of govt rule of SS will 'temper' them (hopefully). Power definitely will bring responsibilities. For example TMC cadres are no less militant than SS cadres (including the leadership)... It'll take years for TMC to act responsibly after the 30 years rule of Left on Bengal...

[Prakat]

^ + absolutely. The aggression and anger is rooted in fear and insecurity that 'foreigners' are controlling their native land. Once their homegrown party sits in government this should be sorted out to a large extent.

[Crookbond]

How does any of this PREVENT the Congress-NCP (which has been in power for 12 yrs) from providing security' date=' development, stopping farmer suicides, improving the infrastructure and giving a clean government? Shiv Sena is NOT in power for heaven's sake.[/quote'] Abbey item! Now listen. You think SS provides development and improves infrastructure you are in for a big surprise. As I mentioned earlier, BMC is controlled and run by the SS since about 25 years now. There has been close to zero improvement in any BMC (Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation) since like 15 years. What makes you so confident that they can provide security and development? The 26/7 scenario was caused because for years the BMC is neglecting the drainage system which was built 150 years ago (by a god damn British Engineer after surveying for 7 years, yes you heard it right). The roads in Mumbai are in a horrible state for a metro city and require special attention to the torrential rainfall it receives. As far as farmer suicides are concerned, what has SS or MNS or any f-u-c-k-i-n-g political party done for them? SS lives in Mumbai in an nice cosy area and wants only the money from Mumbai. So, sorry there is no evidence to suggest that SS will improve over Congress-NCP. So, probably it is time to stop the moral lectures and make two tables pros/cons of each party and discuss which points are not acceptable and kick out any party who does not adhere to it.

[seedhi]

Abbey item! Now listen. You think SS provides development and improves infrastructure you are in for a big surprise. As I mentioned earlier' date=' BMC is controlled and run by the SS since about 25 years now. There has been close to zero improvement in any BMC (Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation) since like 15 years. What makes you so confident that they can provide security and development? [/quote']You got me wrong, I am not vouching for the performance of SS-BJP over the Congress in developmental works, but only saying that the situation in Mumbai/Maharashtra cannot be blamed on SS-BJP because it is Congress-NCP that has been in power for last 12 years. The party in power has to take the primary responsibility. Now this is quite orthogonal to your opnion/assertion/perception that SS-BJP might do no better or even worse if elected to power in the state. But to claim that SS-BJP is primarily responsible for the mess is clearly unfair. One observation that I did make was that as far as terrorist attacks go, there were very few during the five years of the SS-BJP rule, compared to the frequent attacks during the Congress-NCP time.

[Crookbond]

You got me wrong' date=' I am not vouching for the performance of SS-BJP over the Congress in developmental works, but only saying that the situation in Mumbai/Maharashtra cannot be blamed on SS-BJP because it is Congress-NCP that has been in power for last 12 years. The party in power has to take the primary responsibility. Now this is quite orthogonal to your opnion/assertion/perception that SS-BJP might do no better or even worse if elected to power in the state. [u']But to claim that SS-BJP is primarily responsible for the mess is clearly unfair. One observation that I did make was that as far as terrorist attacks go, there were very few during the five years of the SS-BJP rule, compared to the frequent attacks during the Congress-NCP time.

OK, but 5 years of SS/BJP rule versus 12 or 15 years of Congress/NCP rule? Not a fair comparison IMO.

[Mariyam]

Molesters identified http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Molesters-identified-in-woman-constable-molestation-case/articleshow/16254783.cms

[surajmal]

Activists up in arms about Mumbai cop's poem on Azad Maidan riot

MUMBAI: A day after TOI reported about a highly objectionable poem in Mumbai police's bulletin, some social activists said they are going to file a writ petition in the Bombay high court against the publisher and the poet. Inspector Sujata Patil of the traffic police in her poem had called the Azad Maidan protesters as traitors, snakes and suggested that their hand should have been chopped off so that they could not dare to do it again. The poem, Azad Maidan, published in city police's bulletin, Sanwwad, has created a stir as it suggested that if the police killed the protesters there would have been no fear. Patil dubbed those involved in the August 11 Azad Maidan riots as "traitors, snakes" and suggested they should have been shot. "Hausla buland tha, izzat lut rahi thi ... himmat ki gaddaron ne Amar Jyoti ko haat lagane ki, kaat dete haath unke toh faryad kisi ki bhi na hoti...Saanp ko doodh pila kar, baat kare hain hum bhai-chare ki ..." Patil has written, further suggested that the cops should have played "goliyon ki holi". Advocate Ejaz Naqvi said that they were going to file a writ petition in the poem case. If Akbaruddin Owaisi delivered a communal speech he is arrested. What action are you (police) going to take against Patil and the publisher?" he asked. A delegation of Muslim activists will be meeting the police commissioner Satya Pal Singh on Monday demanding action against Patil. Former city police commissioner, M N Singh termed it as highly objectionable. "The writer should know she is a police officer and that our country does not have such a barbaric punishment. Our country is governed by law. She should certainly be questioned for it. Whether any case applies (against her) or not, is a matter of legal opinion." Film director Mahesh Bhatt said that time is here to put our police force on the psychiatric couch and find out from where their hatred towards minority originates. "The fascist ideology has spread its tentacles into the police force. How can a police journal condone or legitimize the use of violence?" he asked.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Activists-up-in-arms-about-Mumbai-cops-poem-on-Azad-Maidan-riot/articleshow/18014257.cms same old same old.

[rageaddict]

Yeh Mahesh Bhatt enka thekedaar hai kya jab dekho har jagah maujud rehta hai. MC hamesha hinduo ke khilaf bhonkta rehta hai.

[beetle]

The poem is written about the rioters who are no doubt traitors and snakes. By their protests ,these activists are equating muslims to these rioters......If I were a muslim,I would find this identification with these rioters very offensive.