Let us accept the truth

[rageaddict]

Hockey is an exciting sport but even in its glorious days it wasnt the sport that united the nation . Its a myth that it was popular everywhere in India just because we were good at it. Hockey was popular mainly in Punjab , some parts of Up and Mumbai to some extent . I have travelled through many Indian states but have never seen any guys playing hockey in the streets . Cricket and football are the only two sports that are played in equal proportion in most parts . Football is preferred more in rainy season and what is the position of our football team in fifa rankings ? 120 , 130 ? Yet it doesnt stop millions of children throughout India from playing it . Its a passion for people in Kerala , NE , Goa and WB irrespective of how the National team performs . I think the problem with sports such as hockey and tennis is that you need a proper playing field for them unlike cricket or football which can be played in narrow gullies and small areas . Also whose gonna carry a dozen hockey sticks everytime you want to play it when there are equipment friendly sports such as cricket and football where just a bat / ball and ball is all you need . A proper hockey field is a must to enjoy hockey . In a small uneven field how would a player take a penalty corner ? Which goalie would stand in front of goal during penalty corner and penalty stroke without protection ? Hockey sticks are preferred over cricket bats though but only during gang wars at colleges .

[jind]

Sushil Kumar is a good example. I would read about their practice every now and then based on some random mutterings about Chatrasal Stadium. Bulk of the country came to know about him after he won the silver, even though he had won bronze in previous Olympics too! Is that media's fault now?

Not true as coffee_rules has pointed out. Abhinav Bindra, Vijender Singh and Sushil Kumar have been quite famous since they won the medals in the last Olympics. Vijender Singh has been sort of a poster boy. Sushil Kumar and Vijender Singh have even come on Roadies :giggle:

[Late Cut]

We are exceptional at marathon studying, to the point of being beaten with a stick for non performance. :hysterical:

[Crookbond]

Dexter, hockey was not played on turf 40 years ago. It was about 35, India didn't win 76' but won the next one in 80'. Then India won CWC in 83' and then no one played. Since then we have been poor. The national team gets turf to practice Im sure. The team in 80 adapted and won gold... We have genetics but no one plays. You could be right though they should make turfs everywhere so kids adapt at a young age. Gora's probably got jealous of India and Pakistan dominance. Hockey is much slower and skillful on grass, was great to watch even on tele from what my parents tell me.

Why don't you read the article rather than only reading the snippet I posted? What happened suddenly that India's dominance from hockey fell? Astro turf was one of the major reasons it made India and Pakistan fall from the pedestal. It's too much of a coincidence that after astro turf both India & Pakistan perform sub par in hockey. IDK what you mean by "Genetics" seriously - but that alone won't help you win much. Also, read the paper then lets discuss. Currently, the "genetics" point is just an opinion. I see no data, proofs, studies to back your argument for even 1%

[Mariyam]

Sure; the gully behind your house, or the one actual pitch with "8 pitches" and 10 games going on at the same time doesnt count. I have no idea if you know me- ganesheran knows me indirectly; my posting here is pretty sporadic. I did kick Mariam's booty in chess a few times.

Libel :mad: You have lost 100% of the chess games that the two of us have played. In fact you were so pathetic that I won both the games left handed.

[Mariyam]

A sport is as valuable as the entertainment and enjoyment that it provides to people(both while playing and watching). The subjectivity of this seems to be lost here.

++

[The Outsider]

Dexter' date=' hockey was not played on turf 40 years ago. It was about 35, India didn't win 76' but won the next one in 80'. Then India won CWC in 83' and then no one played. Since then we have been poor. The national team gets turf to practice Im sure. [b']The team in 80 adapted and won gold...

LOL! The entire western block had boycotted the 1980 Olympics at Moscow. The competition included powerhouses like Tanzania and Cuba. There were a total of 6 teams in the Hockey competition with Spain being the only decent one.

[India-KXIP fan]

^Gold's a gold. And Pakistan (same people) won in 84'. So we are naturally superior in hockey but yeah interest largely died down cricket took over. But the fact there are only a few Astroturfs for youth's to practice on also plays a part. Until they become common and interest in Hockey increases India won't be getting gold anymore. They will remain poor. In the first few olympics (after 76') Astoturf was new to everyone we were genetically superior in Hockey so we kept winning. Now western kids grow up with Astroturf while Indians have to adapt after they get into national team

[The Outsider]

^Gold's a gold. And Pakistan (same people) won in 84'. So we are naturally superior in hockey but yeah interest largely died down cricket took over. But the fact there are only a few Astroturfs for youth's to practice on also plays a part. Until they become common and interest in Hockey increases India won't be getting gold anymore. They will remain poor.

Yeah, Gold is a Gold but India did not win the 1980 Gold because they adapted to Astroturfs as you are saying. They won because the competition was really poor. Anyhow, just wanted to get this in since I don't have the inclination to indulge in a mindless discussion on Hockey genes.

[The Outsider]

In the first few olympics (after 76') Astoturf was new to everyone we were genetically superior in Hockey so we kept winning. Now western kids grow up with Astroturf while Indians have to adapt after they get into national team

Yeah, access to Astroturf is a big problem. But when did we "keep winning" after the introduction of Astroturfs? The only major event India won after that was the boycotted '80 Olympics. Pakistan was able to carry on putting a better show for longer because they had a few brilliant individual players in the 80s and early 90s like Hassan Sardar and Shahbaz Ahmed. But in general Pakistani hockey suffered from the same issues and one can't bank on producing players like the above two anymore than the Indian cricket system can bank on producing someone like Tendulkar by design.

[India-KXIP fan]

Yeah' date=' access to Astroturf is a big problem. But when did we "keep winning" after the introduction of Astroturfs? The only major event India won after that was the boycotted '80 Olympics. Pakistan was able to carry on putting a better show for longer because they had a few brilliant individual players in the 80s and early 90s like Hassan Sardar and Shahbaz Ahmed. But in general Pakistani hockey suffered from the same issues and one can't bank on producing players like the above two anymore than the Indian cricket system can bank on producing someone like Tendulkar by design.[/quote'] Astroturf was new to everyone and India or Pakistan only lost the World cup or Olympics once after 76' until 84'. Those great players had to adapt to Astroturf. We still have highly potent players but although genetics are most important you need proper training from a young age to reach your potential ability which our youth's don't get. Like I said now our players adapt at a much older age to AstroTurf than Western kids who are born with it. That's all. Most our players grow up playing on grass and at the elite level that's not good enough. And atm the Indian team is in similar form to Indian cricket team in Tests

[The Outsider]

Astroturf was new to everyone and India or Pakistan only lost the World cup or Olympics once after 76' until 84'. Those great players had to adapt to Astroturf. We still have highly potent players but although genetics are most important you need proper training from a young age to reach your potential ability which our youth's don't get. Like I said now our players adapt at a much older age to AstroTurf than Western kids who are born with it. That's all. Most our players grow up playing on grass and at the elite level that's not good enough. And atm the Indian team is in similar form to Indian cricket team in Tests

I feel it's wrong to club India and Pakistan together during that time frame. India won only one depleted tournament and Pakistan used to put up a strong show at Olympics and the World Cup consistently and continued to do so till the early 90s. It was primarily because of the inherently great couple of players Pakistan had. Not everyone can adapt to Astroturfs with the same ease. Someone as inherently great as Tendulkar will adapt to a fast and bouncy Australian wicket much quicker than an Ajay Sharma even though both grew up on slow and low tracks and scored tons of runs on them.

[India-KXIP fan]

I feel it's wrong to club India and Pakistan together during that time frame. India won only one depleted tournament and Pakistan used to put up a strong show at Olympics and the World Cup consistently and continued to do so till the early 90s. It was primarily because of the inherently great couple of players Pakistan had. Not everyone can adapt to Astroturfs with the same ease. Someone as inherently great as Tendulkar will adapt to a fast and bouncy Australian wicket much quicker than an Ajay Sharma even though both grew up on slow and low tracks and scored tons of runs on them.

I just meant same genetics same people (alot of Punjab region players from both countries). India may have been down temporarily, they failed in 72' Olympics and 71' and 73' World Cups on grass. After 85' obviously Western nations have a huge advantage. And who knows India could have won 80' with strong opp. They did manage to beat Spain.

[Prakat]

Scientists discover the elusive Sind-Punjab Dribbling Gene. When isolated the gene tends to dribble a rare enzyme KXIP. Sequence TalvindertoBhatiatoKhantoSinghtoIqbaltoSandhutoLakhaniauryehGoal Although recent mutations have changed the end to "auryehPenaltyShotAuryehMiss"

[The Outsider]

I just meant same genetics same people (alot of Punjab region players from both countries). India may have been down temporarily' date=' they failed in 72' Olympics and 71' and 73' World Cups on grass. [b']After 85' obviously Western nations have a huge advantage.

That's the most crucial point in my opinion, though I would put the date down to '75 rather than '85. The power and penalty corner game introduced through Astroturfs was a huge disadvantage to the dribble and pass game traditionally played in India and Pakistan on the faster surface. Pakistan was able to arrest the quick slide India faced because of their great players of the time, but India's team was not as inherently great nor was their style of play suited to the new surface and India's slide was quicker. Personally, I feel it might be too late to repair hockey in India because it has completely lost it's popularity. Astroturfs will help to an extent, sure.

And who knows India could have won 80' with strong opp. They did manage to beat Spain.

Barely. And Spain has never been among the top hockey countries either, so yeah India "could" have won in '80 with a more complete opposition but let's face it the chances were really slim specially when you consider how the team performed in more participated tournaments either side of the win.

[Crookbond]

That's the most crucial point in my opinion, though I would put the date down to '75 rather than '85. The power and penalty corner game introduced through Astroturfs was a huge disadvantage to the dribble and pass game traditionally played in India and Pakistan on the faster surface. Pakistan was able to arrest the quick slide India faced because of their great players of the time, but India's team was not as inherently great nor was their style of play suited to the new surface and India's slide was quicker.

The genetics comment is really hilarious actually - it's turning into an obsession now!

[India-KXIP fan]

The genetics comment is really hilarious actually - it's turning into an obsession now!

let's face the facts here. Western nations didn't dominate til 10 years after Astroturf introduced. reasons for this dominance after 85' I've posted in above posts. What India should do is make Astroturf's everywhere in India 10-15 years later the kids that grew up on them will be getting golds. /thread

[Prakat]

let's face the facts here. Western nations didn't dominate til 10 years after Astroturf introduced. reasons for this dominance after 85' I've posted in above posts. What India should do is make Astroturf's everywhere in India 10-15 years later the kids that grew up on them will be getting golds. /thread

Now you're talking. With political will we can compete in the modern game. The other alternative is to head a breakaway group that plays Natural Hockey. Make that a thing that countries will want to excel at. Cricket has variable pitches, Tennis has grass, clay, chennai. Hockey can have Grass top competitions. Better to stop with the genetics or we'll have some aussie troll claiming Aussie Cricketing Gene for making sporting excellence, based on their golden years.

[Crookbond]

So, it shows we had the skill set to play on grass turfs! It doesn't prove there are some magical genes in us. FYI - at the grass root level (or till some years back even on the state level) in India hockey is not played on astro turf.

[punjabi_khota]

lol this 'hockey genes' bullshit is so lame I wonder why you guys are even trying. What next ? soccer genes ? ****ing 120 countries beat our ass to ground, so we don't have soccer genes ? Everyone from Iran to Japan to Mexico to Nigeria to Russia has got soccer genes, and we don't' ? Bullshyte.