Prakat Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I think most of us are trying very very hard to dodge the core issue. I believe the problem is more simple and fundamental than what has been stated. And yes some what inconvenient' date=' but if society has to change and move forward some uncomfortable questions need to be asked.[/quote'] This is what I've been saying. The way the vocal followers of Islam relate with the world is unacceptable. They live in societies, in families, where domination is key and violence is a method. No wonder they see anything like this as oppressive and think fighting back with violence will be a lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Furthermore didnt you ever observed every protest by them e.g. in Paksitan on ANY issue; be it Benazir murder' date= restoration of judges or any damn political reason will end up exactly same way i.e violant mobs, attacking police, damaging govt property, setting banks and vehicles on fire, few will get killed and 100s will end up behind bars. So is that all too a part of their religious teachings/practice and they get these instrctions from Jumma prayers? :dontknow: Nor sure why you would even go that direction. You seem to say this - Hey my country (Pakistan) and its citizens are complete retards who resort to violence at drop of a hat. We are effed up as a nation but our religion is great! That may be a key difference here. I personally would defend my country and citizens ahead of my religion, you obviously think differently. :winky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swing_n_Speed Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Sigh does anyone still believe that Stevens was killed because of a movie? Anyways here's an alternate way of looking at things:- So no communal strife in Egypt, despite the international media being more than clear it was a supposed 'Copt' who made that movie. There was no attempt whatsoever to target minorities there. Likewise Lebanon. The Pope was in town, yet that entire event went off smoothly. This could easily have been so much worse. Despite what it seemed like there was little ti no communal acts in these protests whatsoever. Suprise, Suprise! At times I think that the motives behind the movie were definitely more sinister. The targets were specifically American institutions. So maybe this was less to do with religion and more to do with politics? And well if these protests were against American policies in their own backyards, then who are we to judge? Besides even Obama was quite specific when he said that Stevens was killed because of the movie. I don't think too many people buy that story any more. Even the MSM is pointing it out now:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206105/White-House-admits-attack-Libya-killed-ambassador-Chris-Stevens-act-terror.html?ITO=1490 This is just an alternative view. Do oblige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Nor sure why you would even go that direction. You seem to say this - Hey my country (Pakistan) and its citizens are complete retards who resort to violence at drop of a hat. We are effed up as a nation but our religion is great! That may be a key difference here. I personally would defend my country and citizens ahead of my religion, you obviously think differently. :winky: Believe me Lurker bhai, lot of our country men would think differently to you. Not majority ofcourse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 what's a moderate muslim? One who doesn't think kaffirs have to be beheaded and thinks Islam is a Religion of Peace, mentions that whenever extremist muslim terrorism is questioned.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Nor sure why you would even go that direction. You seem to say this - Hey my country (Pakistan) and its citizens are complete retards who resort to violence at drop of a hat. We are effed up as a nation but our religion is great! That may be a key difference here. I personally would defend my country and citizens ahead of my religion, you obviously think differently. :winky: Believe me Lurker bhai' date=' lot of our country men would think differently to you. Not majority ofcourse[/quote'] So, the defense has got little to with the rights and wrongs for you guys, but with nationalistic jingoism versus religious jingoism? What's right has to be defended and what's wrong has to be shunned. As simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Violence Breaks Out in Pakistan as Public Holiday Begins In Pakistan, the scene of the most turbulent unrest, ARY News said that a driver, Muhammad Amir, was shot three times by the police as he drove through an area where stick-wielding protesters were burning a movie theater owned by a prominent politician. “An attack on the holy prophet is an attack on the core belief of 1.5 billion Muslims. Therefore, this is something that is unacceptable,” said Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf in an address to a religious conference Friday morning in Islamabad. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/world/asia/protests-in-pakistan-over-anti-islam-film.html :headshake: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshayxyz Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 The root of the problem is that the Muslims we see protesting aren't free. Have you ever seen one free Muslim individual protesting about anything? We are talking of mobs and your free agency is out the window once you are in one. And mobs, strengthened by lack of accountability, free-wheeling aggression are prone to violence. Xyz may have stepped out of his house freely but once he joins the mob he is meat. Now, you can ask, was xyz ever really free to begin with? There is a massive system of control at work in the Muslim world. The nearest another religion comes to exercising such complete control over the lives of its followers is found in South America with the catholic church. This.++ Basic idea of 'freedom' is not there or distorted in major part of some such ideologies. Violence Breaks Out in Pakistan as Public Holiday Begins http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/world/asia/protests-in-pakistan-over-anti-islam-film.html :headshake: That is apt live example of - khali dimag ( aur shareer) shaitan ka ghar. Logon ko kaam dhandha aur responsibility nahi dogey, tou yehi karengey. (ya tou mutth maarengey, ya latth).<- my contribution to kahawat :) None of these in the crowd, looks like they have any responsibility, anything to do, anything to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Probably Christians should start getting mentally "hurt" and protest against this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 The root of the problem is that the Muslims we see protesting aren't free. Have you ever seen one free Muslim individual protesting about anything? We are talking of mobs and your free agency is out the window once you are in one. And mobs, strengthened by lack of accountability, free-wheeling aggression are prone to violence. Xyz may have stepped out of his house freely but once he joins the mob he is meat. . But that wasnt my point. The violence done by these mobs must be condemned to no end. But why should the regular muslim not have the right to approach his religion whichever way he sees fit. He has the right to get offended and peacefully protest even though the rest of us consider it trivial. It becomes everyone else's problem when mobs use violence as a response to stifle criticism. That is completely unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 what's a moderate muslim? Good honest question. I don't know. To be honest, it is tough question to answers. Even the radicals might believe they are moderate. They are only following the religion as written or as they understand it. I ll say this not much comes out against the radicals and barbaric practices in some of these countries ftom the outrage factory. I wish some of these "moderates" who blelieve in basic freedom and democracy would raise their voices too. But they are few and far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 So' date=' the defense has got little to with the rights and wrongs for you guys, but with nationalistic jingoism versus religious jingoism? What's right has to be defended and what's wrong has to be shunned. As simple as that.[/quote'] Puttimg nation first != Nationalistic jingoism :beee: Nationalistic jingoism, to me, is standing for retarded arguments. That SRT is still the best batsman in the world :giggle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 WzI4qloRdaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket_Guru Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 overall peacefull protests in pakistan, but loot maar mafia was out with full swing too and hence getting media attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asim Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 ^ Yeah not even a single mirror been broken in my city despite thousands protested but like always in few bigger cities mobs under no flag were busy all day freely in loot maar, attacking police, burning down the private businesses, cinemas and fuel pumps all on name of Islam :facepalm: 15 got died... Now definitely all this (may b rightly so) will get highlighted all around the world instead of other 95+% who were peaceful and got nothing to do with all this but that majority too now can only b embarrass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 20+ died mate. That will always undo 99% of good work done on any day for any cause. I hope peace prevails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desi Cartman Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Why are these flags green, what happened to the white ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asim Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Suppose USA announces free visa tonight, all those "Anti-USA" violent mobs people will be first to linedup to get it even before sun rises tomorrow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asim Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Paksitan's Today violent protests analysis: http://www.awaztoday.com/playshow.aspx?pageID=27661&showname=Islamabad-Tonight-21st-September-2012&vSource=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Day of love in pakistan This is how pakistanis celebrate Day of Love for prophet Muhammad in pakistan. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s-eMHSZ4L0]'Day of Love' in Pakistan: Video of deadly anti-US protest - YouTube[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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