Dhoni should be sacked as captain in all 3 formats!

[CG]

And yet' date=' when we are at home, we play like champions under this same captain. Surely, that can only been that the root cause is that we simply don't have the application in away matches. And yet, no one wants to address that.[/quote'] Why should anybody care when captain thinks away games are for practice and getting better for home.:giggle:

[Straight Drive]

And yet' date=' when we are at home, we play like champions under this same captain. Surely, that can only been that the root cause is that we simply don't have the application in away matches. And yet, no one wants to address that.[/quote'] Do you not remember the last India-England test series played in India. 1-0 up and then we know what happened.

[express bowling]

Why is each time when we lose' date=' suddenly our players back home are seen as Bradman. It's not like Yadav was a great bowler. And selecting 4 bowlers was the consensus for 3rd test, especially when we bowled the first 2 tests matches using 4 bowlers. So don't bring hindsight each time.[/quote'] Yadav has taken 32 wickets from 9 tests. Decent. Has a strike rate of 46. Great by world standards. Has an average of 32. Good by Indian standards. Can bowl 135 to 150 k. Excellent by world standards. Why would a country like India , with a poor test bowling attack, leave him out ? Almost every poster in ICF wanted Umesh in the test team even before a single ball was bowled. So ... please don't say it's hindsight.

[someone]

No yadav is not a great bowler but is one of indias best bowlers and won us the last test he played and we do not have greats in the bench as well.

If you have an issue with not selecting Yadav in squad, blame the selectors. That's fine, as it's your own personal opinion. But don't give such childish logic that Yadav would have instantly solved everything and made us win all matches. Many said the same thing about Aaron, but look what happened? Just because we lost doesn't mean that those who did not play are suddenly excellent players.

[someone]

Do you not remember the last India-England test series played in India. 1-0 up and then we know what happened.

Even the great, Ganguly lost series at home. Whereas Dhoni's record at home is much better than Ganguly, Dhoni has been the greatest captain at home for us.

[CG]

If you have an issue with not selecting Yadav in squad, blame the selectors. That's fine, as it's your own personal opinion. But don't give such childish logic that Yadav would have instantly solved everything and made us win all matches. Many said the same thing about Aaron, but look what happened? Just because we lost doesn't mean that those who did not play are suddenly excellent players.

I never said it would have solved anything it was in response to your post.Yes aaron did well and with yadav you would have had a more potent attack.Yes yadav is indias best test bowler.

[Straight Drive]

Even the great' date=' Ganguly lost series at home. Whereas Dhoni's record at home is much better than Ganguly, Dhoni has been the greatest captain at home for us.[/quote'] That's what most are saying here. Just because we lost poorly overseas before Dhoni does not means the next captains continue the legacy and such results are acceptable because that has happened in the past. Are you sure Saurav won just 1 match out of 17 overseas in 3 years? I haven't checked his record yet.

[King Tendulkar]

Even the great' date=' Ganguly lost series at home. Whereas Dhoni's record at home is much better than Ganguly, Dhoni has been the greatest captain at home for us.[/quote'] Unfortunately we also have to play away from home!

[express bowling]

From 1993 , more spin friendly pitches are being prepared for test matches played in India ... in comparison to the super flat tracks of the 1980s. From that time on ... no Indian captain has done badly in our home test series, by and large. Series losses have been exceptions rather than the norm. While choosing/ retaining/ rating a test captain, the main criteria has to be outside subcontinent performances as a captain if any. Dhoni has lost 13 out of 17 outside- subcontinent tests in the last 3 years. That is very very poor. If there is an iota of accountability left in BCCI decision making, he should be removed as test captain.

[express bowling]

Why is each time when we lose' date=' suddenly our players back home are seen as Bradman. It's not like Yadav was a great bowler. And selecting 4 bowlers was the consensus for 3rd test, especially when we bowled the first 2 tests matches using 4 bowlers. So don't bring hindsight each time.[/quote'] Yadav has taken 32 wickets from 9 tests. Decent. Has a strike rate of 46. Great by world standards. Has an average of 32. Good by Indian standards. Can bowl 135 to 150 k. Excellent by world standards. Why would a country like India , with a poor test bowling attack, leave him out ? Almost every poster in ICF wanted Umesh in the test team even before a single ball was bowled. So ... please don't say it's hindsight.

[rkt.india]

No matter who is the captain scoring 150 wont win you anything.

[express bowling]

No matter who is the captain scoring 150 wont win you anything.

True. But, many of our young batters did well in SAF and NZ.... proving that they can bat outside the subcontinent. Why this sudden and collective failure then ? Surely not a matter of lack of ability, proved by the above point. The reasons need investigation by the board.

[velu]

No matter who is the captain scoring 150 wont win you anything.

wats worse is we are @ something like 45/6 , 66/6 , 56/6 etc etc

[rkt.india]

True. But, many of our young batters did well in SAF and NZ.... proving that they can bat outside the subcontinent. Why this sudden and collective failure then ? Surely not a matter of lack of ability, proved by the above point. The reasons need investigation by the board.

I say the reason is 5 tests which they are not ready mentally and physically. Two tests are fine for them overseas at this point. It was also harsh on these players to play 3rd overseas test series in a row with no home tests. Kohli was bound to fail after 2 successful test series, but it gone worse because there was no way back for him to introspect in a back to back 5 test series. Even Pujara who looked really good in first two tests, might not have scored big, but fell away under pressure later.

[Straight Drive]

No matter who is the captain scoring 150 wont win you anything.

It's just not batting. We also lose because of bad fielding (dropped catches/missed stumpings) as well as bad bowling in some matches. Selections and bad captaincy are also other factors. We cannot keep the same captain because we are doing bad in other aspects too. With so much of inexperience, the captain has a more role to play. Previous captains had luxury of international superstars who would get into any team. These players are struggling to even secure their place in our own squad. So Dhoni has a bigger role than what Saurav had to play. He is captain for 4 years now? Results still not there. Probably overseas record getting worse than before? Lastly, whatever the results, the captaincy has to come under scrutiny and be accountable at the deepest lows at least. We have reached that stage where accountability has to be considered.

[rkt.india]

It's just not batting. We also lose because of bad fielding (dropped catches/missed stumpings) as well as bad bowling in some matches. Selections and bad captaincy are also other factors. We cannot keep the same captain because we are doing bad in other aspects too. With so much of inexperience, the captain has a more role to play. Previous captains had luxury of international superstars who would get into any team. These players are struggling to even secure their place in our own squad. So Dhoni has a bigger role than what Saurav had to play. Lastly, whatever the results, the captaincy has to come under scrutiny and be accountable at the deepest lows at least. We have reached that stage where accountability has to be considered.

I am am not saying captain should stay, but his departure alone wont change too many things. Fielders wont start taking catches and batsmen will start scoring 500 runs in a five test series. For me, they shouldn't play more than 2-3 tests series right now. They do not have fitness and intensity for a such long test series.

[CG]

I am am not saying captain should stay' date=' but his departure alone wont change too many things. Fielders wont start taking catches and batsmen will start scoring 500 runs in a five test series. For me, they shouldn't play more than 2-3 tests series right now. They do not have fitness and intensity for a such long test series.[/quote'] Captain can make a huge diff just look at anil kumble in aus series .The intensity which he displayed at sydney just rubbed off the team ,we have played 4 test series before so all these excuse of 5 tests does not hold true.Fact is somebody like kumble or dravid demand intensity and were not casual as dhoni is making practice sessions optional and so forth.Captain is as good as his team true but team is also a reflection of the captains attitude.

[Straight Drive]

I am am not saying captain should stay' date=' but his departure alone wont change too many things. Fielders wont start taking catches and batsmen will start scoring 500 runs in a five test series. For me, they shouldn't play more than 2-3 tests series right now. They do not have fitness and intensity for a such long test series.[/quote'] Yes, we won't solve 5 or whatever problems by sacking Dhoni as captain. However, we will at least acknowledge captaincy is a problem as well and we are trying to improve by making a change. I could understand that if we said the likes of Saurav, Sehwag, Rahul or VVS were in team all at age of 33+ or more in some cases and that we should stick with 3 test or so. Look we got Murali,Shikhar,Chet, Virat, Ajinkya. If we cannot expect below 28 years players who are just specialist batsmen to play even 5 test series, then who should play that. 5 tests can be an issue for pace bowler or say even spinners, but how can specialist batsmen complain of fatigue at the age of 25 or so. Also, what is the point of taking a 17 man squad on the tour if they cant last over 5 test series provided all are fit at start of the first test.

[rkt.india]

Captain can make a huge diff just look at anil kumble in aus series .The intensity which he displayed at sydney just rubbed off the team ,we have played 4 test series before so all these excuse of 5 tests does not hold true.Fact is somebody like kumble or dravid demand intensity and were not casual as dhoni is making practice sessions optional and so forth.Captain is as good as his team true but team is also a reflection of the captains attitude.

These players have not played long tests series.

[rkt.india]

Yes, we won't solve 5 or whatever problems by sacking Dhoni as captain. However, we will at least acknowledge captaincy is a problem as well and we are trying to improve by making a change. I could understand that if we said the likes of Saurav, Sehwag, Rahul or VVS were in team all at age of 33+ or more in some cases and that we should stick with 3 test or so. Look we got Murali,Shikhar,Chet, Virat, Ajinkya. If we cannot expect below 28 years players who are just specialist batsmen to play even 5 test series, then who should play that. 5 tests can be an issue for pace bowler or say even spinners, but how can specialist batsmen complain of fatigue at the age of 25 or so. Also, what is the point of taking a 17 man squad on the tour if they cant last over 5 test series provided all are fit at start of the first test.

It is more a mental thing than physical. Even with our best players, we rarely played 4-5 tests series and when played, we lost badly. One in WI in 2002 and one in Aus in 2003 without their best attack. They are not able to maintain intensity for such a long period. Most of the players have never played a lot if tests overseas and that created problem for them. They certainly lacked in preparation.