Umesh Yadav and Varon Aaron - What Happened?

[Crookbond]

That's the reason I don't want to go into specifics of speed, swing, seam etc. If a bowler can pick up wickets with a good SR and decent ER in most conditions, I will have him in my team. I will not look at the speed gun or anything else to check his "ability".

[Old guy]

Get a good 80mph bowler and give him 10mph and he will be a better bowler. However, a lot of people have had great records at a speed of 80mph. Walsh and Ambrose in England in 2000 were bowling around 80mph and both performed magnificently with seam movement and great accuracy. Mcgrath at the end of his career was averaging under 25 and that is when his speed was at its lowest. Pollock and Vaas also achieved good success at medium-pace. People like to interpret from this that they have this magical 'experience' which allows them to succeed in Test level at lower speeds but until anyone can give me an idea of what this feature consists of in reality, I won't take it seriously. Zaheer Khan in recent years has shown that mastery of swing can allow you to make the batsman look a fool and occasionally he is down at 75mph. He can bowl at 85mph but he has bowled entire spells at around 80mph where he has made batsmen look foolish.

vaas,zaheer,pollock good u mentioned them.. until they had decent pace around 130-135 they were lethal but then came time at end of career when they lost 5-6 k's and there was huge dip in bowling imo...pace does matter if u can have them both its the ideal situation but wayward quick bowlers are no good..would love if india can find a good 80mph bowler like zaheer again also another quetion with u guys.. dont conditions matter? i mean in england u can live with guys like praveen kumar...philander is deadly in those conditions.. but im not confident these guys would be that good in subcontinent.. but a pcaer like steyn who has control and is quick will be handful even here imo

[PaceAttack]

No offense but district isn't Test cricket. At Test cricket' date=' batsmen play very high speeds on the bowling machine all the time. Those 5-7kph probably take the speed from comfortable to something a bit too quick for you to handle. For Test batsmen, you need to approach around 95mph before you are getting too quick for a batsman.[/quote'] Ha ha. alright bro. I got nothing to say. You are entitled to your view. I better leave this topic. Its hard to explain fast bowling to those who just watch cricket on TV. No offense.

[rkt.india]

ofcourse it's more likely if its backed by swing' date='line n length,reverse etc. in case of Steyn,the point is we have choice of one,a line n length swing bowler v a fast one who bowls all over the place n doesnt swing it,who'd u have?I'd have former[/quote'] What would you do if both bowl crap? I would go with quicker one because he is more equipped to become a better bowler if he learns the trade. And problem is everone we have is crap whether quicker or medium pacer.

[msb1991]

vaas,zaheer,pollock good u mentioned them.. until they had decent pace around 130-135 they were lethal but then came time at end of career when they lost 5-6 k's and there was huge dip in bowling imo...pace does matter if u can have them both its the ideal situation but wayward quick bowlers are no good..would love if india can find a good 80mph bowler like zaheer again also another quetion with u guys.. dont conditions matter? i mean in england u can live with guys like praveen kumar...philander is deadly in those conditions.. but im not confident these guys would be that good in subcontinent.. but a pcaer like steyn who has control and is quick will be handful even here imo

You say "you can live with guys like Praveen Kumar...Philander" but that is to underplay them. Philander, in Test cricket, has outbowled Steyn! Kumar, on the England tour, outbowled Sreesanth and Ishant, comfortably. He was threatening with the new ball and tight with the old ball. You are not confident that these guys would be good in the subcontinent. It all depends if they can move the ball over here. We've seen Zaheer get plenty of swing in the subcontinent and get success. Remember, Steyn was hammered by Sehwag in India and then he found some reverse swing and he became unplayable. Swing is just as useful as speed on slow subcontinent pitches. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ursYWQn3GrM]Zaheer Khan Reverse Swing vs Australia - YouTube[/ame] Also, this isn't directed at you, but people always make up places that medium pacers won't be successful. Some say it is the subcontinent, some say it is Australia, some say it is South Africa - people change their minds depending on which conditions a medium pacer has got wickets in last.

[Old guy]

You say "you can live with guys like Praveen Kumar...Philander" but that is to underplay them. Philander, in Test cricket, has outbowled Steyn! Kumar, on the England tour, outbowled Sreesanth and Ishant, comfortably. He was threatening with the new ball and tight with the old ball. You are not confident that these guys would be good in the subcontinent. It all depends if they can move the ball over here. We've seen Zaheer get plenty of swing in the subcontinent and get success. Remember, Steyn was hammered by Sehwag in India and then he found some reverse swing and he became unplayable. Swing is just as useful as speed on slow subcontinent pitches. Zaheer Khan Reverse Swing vs Australia - YouTube Also, this isn't directed at you, but people always make up places that medium pacers won't be successful. Some say it is the subcontinent, some say it is Australia, some say it is South Africa - people change their minds depending on which conditions a medium pacer has got wickets in last.

zaheer was actually more lethal with older ball but thts cos of reverse he got... i have never seen praveen kumar swing older ball (i mean reverse swing) same with philander thats why i said that anyway u can read my posts im not the one who is saying pace is everything but if u can have both imo thats ideal! and in india if u have pace (not express just decent ) u will be better off a good example will be first test between england and south africa flat track. philander bowled beautifully with not much results to show.. steyn was able to get 5 wikets in 2nd innigns to win the match thts the difference imo problem is we dont have either of them.. i will gladly take philander over yadav but if u have option of guys like morkel or steyn..thats diff story another example could be difference between bowling of anderson and finn.. finn made things happen in last test anderson was steady thats where pace is important

[rkt.india]

Pace alone does not make a bowler good. It is an added advantage if he has other skills and control. Because a bowler cannot bowl at his optimum pace all the time. And the most dangerous bowlers in history of cricket have been quicker bowlers. They may slow down later on but then their experience compensate for the lack of pace.

[msb1991]

Ha ha. alright bro. I got nothing to say. You are entitled to your view. I better leave this topic. Its hard to explain fast bowling to those who just watch cricket on TV. No offense.

I play cricket all the time. I played First XI club team until I got ill with cancer and am currently doing physical rehabilitation. Do not speak of what you don't know!

[PaceAttack]

I play cricket all the time. I played First XI club team until I got ill with cancer and am currently doing physical rehabilitation. Do not speak of what you don't know!

Alright bro. I am sorry to hear your illness. Get well soon.:two_thumbs_up:

[Lord]

What would you do if both bowl crap? I would go with quicker one because he is more equipped to become a better bowler if he learns the trade. And problem is everone we have is crap whether quicker or medium pacer.

pace can be improved too:dontknow: agree,we have bowlers who bowl all over the place at 125k:facepalm:.I wasnt defending them

[bajrang]

:blink: Let me put it this way - as long a bowler is effective (good SR + good ER) across most conditions, I will not bother about what speed gun and say Hey look that's just 133 kmph but you know this guy bowls 140 kmph so lets bring in the 140 kmph guy because he's 7kmph faster. That's BS because the extra 7kmph does not mean the bowler would be effective.

praveen kumar on many occasion has said that Kevin peterson during RCB camps had said to him that if he can increase his pace by 5-7 Km he will be more effective. now either kevin dont know anything or you dont. i am more inclined towards the later.

[Crookbond]

praveen kumar on many occasion has said that Kevin peterson during RCB camps had said to him that if he can increase his pace by 5-7 Km he will be more effective. now either kevin dont know anything or you dont. i am more inclined towards the later.

Try and understand this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization

[Lord]

praveen kumar on many occasion has said that Kevin peterson during RCB camps had said to him that if he can increase his pace by 5-7 Km he will be more effective. now either kevin dont know anything or you dont. i am more inclined towards the later.

various commies have said that if Ishant can adjust his line n length,he'll more effective:dontknow:

[msb1991]

praveen kumar on many occasion has said that Kevin peterson during RCB camps had said to him that if he can increase his pace by 5-7 Km he will be more effective. now either kevin dont know anything or you dont. i am more inclined towards the later.

Try and understand this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization

:agree: Also, the bolded part was not read correctly!

[bajrang]

various commies have said that if Ishant can adjust his line n length' date='he'll more effective:dontknow:[/quote'] they dont say that he has to slow down.

[Crookbond]

MSB, Not the first time mate - I think I was pretty clear. The pace obsession is getting out of hand. In Praveen Kumar's case Pietersen's comments makes great sense [0] He bowls at 125-130 kmph [1] He relies heavily (or can I say ONLY?) on swing. Even if the pitch has help for his swinging deliveries, the batsman can adjust to the swing as the pace is slow. If the pitch does not have swing, you can hit him straight through the line without much thought. There's a reason why Praveen Kumar is rarely given overs at the death and there's no prizes for guessing.

[bajrang]

doesnt change anything. junaid is still not a fast bowler. he is an medium pacer aka trundler.

[MCcricket]

MSB, Not the first time mate - I think I was pretty clear. The pace obsession is getting out of hand. In Praveen Kumar's case Pietersen's comments makes great sense [0] He bowls at 125-130 kmph [1] He relies heavily (or can I say ONLY?) on swing. Even if the pitch has help for his swinging deliveries, the batsman can adjust to the swing as the pace is slow. If the pitch does not have swing, you can hit him straight through the line without much thought. There's a reason why Praveen Kumar is rarely given overs at the death and there's no prizes for guessing.

Pace is an essential component to be successful at international level, a bowler should be able to bowl 135 to 142 atleast,though pace alone doesn't guarantee success, a trundler is very dependent on conditions and cannot run thru sides also he has to have pinpoint accuracy, a trundler is akin to a batter who cannot hit boundaries and just accumulates runs by ones and twos and rarely can be successful in international cricket.

[rkt.india]

MSB, Not the first time mate - I think I was pretty clear. The pace obsession is getting out of hand. In Praveen Kumar's case Pietersen's comments makes great sense [0] He bowls at 125-130 kmph [1] He relies heavily (or can I say ONLY?) on swing. Even if the pitch has help for his swinging deliveries, the batsman can adjust to the swing as the pace is slow. If the pitch does not have swing, you can hit him straight through the line without much thought. There's a reason why Praveen Kumar is rarely given overs at the death and there's no prizes for guessing.

In tests PK mostly bowls at 120-125k, 125-130 in tests. WRT, our bowling stocks, after seeing Yadav against NZ, I would like if PK gets some chances because he will at least bowl with control and support spinners better.

[Crookbond]

Pace is an essential component to be successful at international level' date=' a bowler should be able to bowl 135 to 142 atleast,though pace alone doesn't guarantee success, a trundler is very dependent on conditions and cannot run thru sides also he has to have pinpoint accuracy, a trundler is akin to a batter who cannot hit boundaries and just accumulates runs by ones and twos and rarely can be successful in international cricket.[/quote'] Arrey yaar - read what I said earlier about bowling and effectiveness.