Crookbond Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 While this is hardly a secret' date=' it's nice to see the fine details come out........next step from here?[/quote'] ACB to investigate and file a chargesheet?
cowboysfan Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 this is what kejriwal should be doing instead of dharnas.
Blue Star Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 What's more worrying is that Mani shankar ayyar and murali deora who refused to increase the price to 8.4 dollars from 4.2$ were thrown out of the ministry and veerappa moily has been appointed to make this deal go through. The prime opposition party BJP hasn't spoken a world against this fraud and it clearly shows how corprates fund the political parties during the election years. Its a mega scam , but Not a word on this issue has been reported on times now news channel. Only communist parties and AAP has taken up this issue.
jusarrived Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 An open secret. To all those fanboys who idolise Dhirubai, he was no angel either. IMO, Tatas, Narayanamurthy and probably Azim Premji are the only ones with an iota of integrity Having worked with/for Tatas for considerable amount of time , I will assure you that they arent angles either. No one is , but Reliance for some reason gets all the bad publicity .
jusarrived Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 I have said this a million times , How many of you Claim HRA with fake bills for eg ? This is no different . Indians in general dont have the right to preach about ethics etc . Our society is corrupt at every level . Tragetting big corporations is not going to cgange things .
G_B_ Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Yet another bullshit statement from Kejriwal....
Iconoclast Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Reliance ... is that owned by the guy that built this thing - Throw him in jail for corruption and horrible taste :giggle:
G_B_ Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Thats another big misconception that he has bad taste. He was forced to built it like that due to Mumbai pathetic FSI allocation. Sometimes i feel like taking all these armchair critics and shooting them straight in the head. As most people in the know will know that building serves as the main office of the Mukesh Ambani empire. So for starters he has to go through whole host of issues with FSI for parking to ensure his top brass have enough space to park. Had mumbai sane FSI rules like Hong Kong he would have built a much more normal skyscraper and stayed there. Mumbai as a city is being screwed by these FSI ancient rental laws and coastal regulation rules. For the record, the auxillary Reliance Industries offices stand in Navi Mumbai on the site of a company many mumbaikar might know as NOCIL a former mafatlal enterprise. There are 4/5 buildings and they look great. The reason they were able to do it cause they had the FSI to do so. Since 2006 mumbai has 15 skyscrapers under construction and 13 of them are caught in a legal wrangle due to FSI issues. The problem is not the person who builds it, its the law.
G_B_ Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 And speaking of the core issue in hand, so if Reliance is making all this brilliant profit how come their profits are showing anaemic growth in their accounts and their share price is one of the worst performing on the stock market. That would imply that Reliance industries is creating serious accounting fraud by siphoning off profits. My family have held the reliance stock ever since its first rights issue, right from its textiles days of Vimal. Believe me the last 5-6 years have been the worst in its history as far as profits and stock price go as compared to the rest of the Indian market. In our portfolio it is the worst performing blue chip stock. Their major source of profit remains the Jamnagar refinery. The market is not dumb mark down the Reliance. There are enough Foreign Funds who are more powerful than Ambani operating in the BSE who would have rushed to invest in Reliance and prop up the stock value to record levels if what Kejriwal is saying was true. Incidently I also hold many British Petroleum stocks listed on the FTSE and even they mention severe operational difficulties and overhead costs in their joint venture with Reliance Industries in their annual statement. Their investment is yet to pay off any profits of note. Keep in mind this is a company who is wants to stay out of the limelight after what happened in the USA. So how about posters read the Reliance industries accounts and AGM summery etc before commenting? Even better read the BP accounts as well. If Mukesh ambani is so powerful how come he fell flat on his face with his recent ventures into retail. In that sector he was literally turfed into in places like UP by political parties. BJP cadre have attacked reliance fresh stores in Mumbai.
G_B_ Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 "Mr Kejriwal should answer a question - what price the gas is available in the international market. If you are buying gas at $15 and $16 per mBtu and if Indian companies are given 8 mBtu kind of per dollar price, I do not think that they have been given exorbitant hike. That is the first point," said Deven Choksey, MD, KR Choksey Securities, in an interview with ET Now. "Second thing, one must understand that gas exploration requires investment and if this investment is not allowed people will not put money in India; they will put money somewhere else, like Reliance put in money in America. So, this is a serious matter," he added. http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-02-11/news/47235834_1_kg-d6-reliance-industries-mbtu All this socialist scum Kejriwal will do is destroy India and return us to pathetic growth rates.
randomGuy Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 I have said this a million times , How many of you Claim HRA with fake bills for eg ? This is no different . Indians in general dont have the right to preach about ethics etc . Our society is corrupt at every level . Tragetting big corporations is not going to cgange things . CAG says production cost is one dollar per barrel. They're now gonna sell at eight times the production cost. Common people will be hurt by inflation.
G_B_ Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 CAG says production cost is one dollar per barrel. They're now gonna sell at eight times the production cost. Common people will be hurt by inflation. and whats the cost of investment in exploration and storage/transport?
randomGuy Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 and whats the cost of investment in exploration and storage/transport? you tell me. My guess is storage is included in production. If reliance is adamant on book exorbitant profits, we can kick them out, no?
urbestfriend Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-02-11/news/47235834_1_kg-d6-reliance-industries-mbtu All this socialist scum Kejriwal will do is destroy India and return us to pathetic growth rates. Do you want him to say differently ? Being a reliance shareholder, you may have "different" opinion. :winky: Fact is they are charging international rates for the domestic production when land belongs to government. If this is not the loot of natural resources, what else? Now look at this article: http://seekingalpha.com/article/2010101-will-natural-gas-keep-falling?source=google_news The price of natural gas changed course and plummeted below $4.8 during last week. Now we are paying the double of this for domestic production:(( this is with the cheap indian labors reliance and ONGS is using for gas production unlike US. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_state_a_epg0_pm0_dpmcf_a.htm Historical data of US import price , it is in the range of 3$ to 7$.
urbestfriend Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 And speaking of the core issue in hand, so if Reliance is making all this brilliant profit how come their profits are showing anaemic growth in their accounts and their share price is one of the worst performing on the stock market. That would imply that Reliance industries is creating serious accounting fraud by siphoning off profits. My family have held the reliance stock ever since its first rights issue, right from its textiles days of Vimal. Believe me the last 5-6 years have been the worst in its history as far as profits and stock price go as compared to the rest of the Indian market. In our portfolio it is the worst performing blue chip stock. Their major source of profit remains the Jamnagar refinery. The market is not dumb mark down the Reliance. There are enough Foreign Funds who are more powerful than Ambani operating in the BSE who would have rushed to invest in Reliance and prop up the stock value to record levels if what Kejriwal is saying was true. Incidently I also hold many British Petroleum stocks listed on the FTSE and even they mention severe operational difficulties and overhead costs in their joint venture with Reliance Industries in their annual statement. Their investment is yet to pay off any profits of note. Keep in mind this is a company who is wants to stay out of the limelight after what happened in the USA. So how about posters read the Reliance industries accounts and AGM summery etc before commenting? Even better read the BP accounts as well. If Mukesh ambani is so powerful how come he fell flat on his face with his recent ventures into retail. In that sector he was literally turfed into in places like UP by political parties. BJP cadre have attacked reliance fresh stores in Mumbai. I am pretty sure reliance will manipulate the books to show higher production costs to book less profits , and the difference goes to Congress and BJP who spend thousands of crores on election publicity. This is how parallel economy works in india.
The Outsider Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-02-11/news/47235834_1_kg-d6-reliance-industries-mbtu All this socialist scum Kejriwal will do is destroy India and return us to pathetic growth rates. WTF! Looks like Niti Central is not giving proper training!
G_B_ Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Do you want him to say differently ? Being a reliance shareholder, you may have "different" opinion. :winky: Fact is they are charging international rates for the domestic production when land belongs to government. If this is not the loot of natural resources, what else? Now look at this article: http://seekingalpha.com/article/2010101-will-natural-gas-keep-falling?source=google_news Now we are paying the double of this for domestic production:(( this is with the cheap indian labors reliance and ONGS is using for gas production unlike US. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_state_a_epg0_pm0_dpmcf_a.htm Historical data of US import price , it is in the range of 3$ to 7$. so why are BP saying the same thing? as Reliance? http://profit.ndtv.com/news/corporates/article-reliance-industries-bp-seek-meeting-with-pm-on-gas-issue-report-369767 Why do BP's accounts show they are haemorrhaging money on this project? are they fiddling the books as well? You do realise that many American biggies do charge international rates for land belonging to the government in the usa as well right? Also, labour is one aspect of the equation. The fact is Reliance especially have to import machinery from outside which is causing them big issues due to the weakness of the rupee. These operations are not labour intensive but capital intensive where machinary lease and operation makes the bulk of the cost. How about the Indian government make an attempt to stop the bleeding of the rupee by actually proposing a balance budget instead of subsidies. That will automatically take care of inflation. The bottomline remains, if Reliance or even BP were making super profits as Kejriwal claims then it would be reflected in both (A) the stock price of BP and Reliance (B) the profits of BP and Reliance © The dividends of BP and Reliance All three have been abysmal. I somehow doubt BP especially has been tinkering with their book. This is just a simple statistical analysis of the market.
G_B_ Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 WTF! Looks like Niti Central is not giving proper training! wow, you really do add to a debate.......
randomGuy Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 RIL had signed contract to sell gas at 2 dollar per unit for 17 yrs. Now they are asking four times more. CAG says production cost is just 1 dollar per unit and RIL will get atleast Rupees 55k crore annual profit every yr. wow' date=' you really do add to a debate.......[/quote'] but that was an appropriate response to what you posted.
G_B_ Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 RIL had signed contract to sell gas at 2 dollar per unit for 17 yrs. Now they are asking four times more. CAG says production cost is just 1 dollar per unit and RIL will get atleast Rupees 55k crore annual profit every yr. but that was an appropriate response to what you posted. thats a very simplistic way of looking at things. I will be very surprised that RIL did not insert a clause on (A) the rupee considering that India has had fluctuations (B) International rates. © Linked to general inflation. Unless you read the full terms of the contract, all this remains is a misrepresentation of facts. No major is dumb enough to sign a water tight contract without some built in exits. Reliance would be stupid to sign such a deal. Inflation in India itself on average is 6% over the last decade or so. Your telling me if we take an average case of 6% over 17 years inflation itself would destroy reliance at this price. The very fact Reliance brought BP on board in a joint venture is because they did not have the sufficient technology to extract the gas. Again, you do realise that different gas fields are different degrees of extraction. On paper Canada has more oil than KSA trapped in its tar sands. Does not mean they are economically viable to extract. While in KSA they are easy to extract. Secondly a lot depends on the type of gas. Some types just like oil are easy to refine. Others are a bit more expensive.
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