Manny_Pacquiao Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 Fair point. Seems the Palestinians are paying the price for Europe's mistakes during the WW2. OR....... they are paying the price for declaring 'intifadas', by electing political parties that pledge to 'drive all the jews out to the sea', and by not recognising israel as a country. i am not condoning anything israel does, but it takes two to tango and these muzzies aren't exactly very forthcoming and don't seem very keen on co-existence. the first step towards peace would be acknowledging israel's right to exist, it would be the logical thing to do considering that they have been populating that land for decades and aren't going anywhere. and they don't even do that, so why should the israelis take them seriously...
EnterTheVoid Posted November 17, 2012 Author Posted November 17, 2012 ^ From the arab point of view, accepting Israel's right to exist would account to legitimising the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians since 1947. Besides, there is nothing left of the West Bank/Gaza Strip to form a Palestinian state anyway. Settlements in the West Bank/East Jerusalem haven't slowed down, let alone stopped!
EnterTheVoid Posted November 17, 2012 Author Posted November 17, 2012 Unlike Egypt under Mubarak, I don't think the new Egypt will sit back and twiddle their thumbs if Israel does a ground invasion of Gaza. The new government is quite sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.
Manny_Pacquiao Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 ^ From the arab point of view, accepting Israel's right to exist would account to legitimising the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians since 1947. Besides, there is nothing left of the West Bank/Gaza Strip to form a Palestinian state anyway. Settlements in the West Bank/East Jerusalem haven't slowed down, let alone stopped! thats pretty crappy logic. both sides can point fingers and count casualties. in fact, thats the only thing they are doing nowadays. thats not gonna solve anything. to stop this cycle of violence, they need to agree on coexistence and move on from what happened in the past. otherwise there is no possibility of a 2 state solution. the arabs need to accept that these jews aren't going anywhere, you can't drive 'em out to the sea...and they haven't got their heads around that yet. doesn't make things easier, does it. another big problem is the fight within the palestinian political establishment, you have a saudi and US backed fatah and then the hezbollah backed hamas...both with different ideas that appeal to the masses. i agree on the 2nd point tho, the settlements issue is where israel is guilty of stalling the process. you have tons of illegal settlements in WB/Gaza, and they have no clue how to deal with them. i remember ehud barak and sharon made efforts to demolish quite a few, but it becomes a political battleground and there is no renewed commitment towards clearing things up. no unity here either. those nutcase jews forming 'settlements' by living in tents in the middle of nowhere are just as bad as those terrorists on the palestinian side. this whole thing is one big cluster**** that will carry on for 100 years
KhanSaab Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 OR....... they are paying the price for declaring 'intifadas', by electing political parties that pledge to 'drive all the jews out to the sea', and by not recognising israel as a country. i am not condoning anything israel does, but it takes two to tango and these muzzies aren't exactly very forthcoming and don't seem very keen on co-existence. the first step towards peace would be acknowledging israel's right to exist, it would be the logical thing to do considering that they have been populating that land for decades and aren't going anywhere. and they don't even do that, so why should the israelis take them seriously... Thats a bullshyt argument. The Palestinian Authority accepts the right of Israel to exist alongside a free Palestine as do a lot of Israel's arab neighbors including Jordan and Egypt and have done so for a long time now. Yasser Arafat wanted a two state solution and Israel still refused to negotiate with him(he ended up dying under mysterious circumstances while under Israeli army siege) ,which allowed Hamas to win the elelctions in west bank. And thats how things stand today.
KhanSaab Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 Unlike Egypt under Mubarak, I don't think the new Egypt will sit back and twiddle their thumbs if Israel does a ground invasion of Gaza. The new government is quite sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. Its too early for this egyptian gov to do anything substantial. i expect a slow change of position.
SLICKR392 Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 Unlike Egypt under Mubarak, I don't think the new Egypt will sit back and twiddle their thumbs if Israel does a ground invasion of Gaza. The new government is quite sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. The public there always was but as you mentioned under Mubarak's rule Egypt was a bit more carefree. Its more of a fanatic government they got now.
EnterTheVoid Posted November 17, 2012 Author Posted November 17, 2012 The fundamental problem here is that there are two people fighting over one piece of land. Everything else is an offshoot of that.
Stuge Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 this is not going in the right direction.. I feel for the innocent dying :(
jairamesh Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 Thats a bullshyt argument. The Palestinian Authority accepts the right of Israel to exist alongside a free Palestine as do a lot of Israel's arab neighbors including Jordan and Egypt and have done so for a long time now. Yasser Arafat wanted a two state solution and Israel still refused to negotiate with him(he ended up dying under mysterious circumstances while under Israeli army siege) ,which allowed Hamas to win the elelctions in west bank. And thats how things stand today. Which only means the problem is even more deeply rooted as Palestinian citizens have endorsed Hamas' ideology which rejects Isreal's right to exist and impose and Islamic state in the current Palestine and Israel territories. And this only adds to paranoia of Isreal and Zionists who will continue these military excursions, especially during Israel election times.
EnterTheVoid Posted November 17, 2012 Author Posted November 17, 2012 Which only means the problem is even more deeply rooted as Palestinian citizens have endorsed Hamas' ideology which rejects Isreal's right to exist and impose and Islamic state in the current Palestine and Israel territories. And this only adds to paranoia of Isreal and Zionists who will continue these military excursions, especially during Israel election times. Fatah let Israel continue to build settlements in the West Bank and occupy arab East Jerusalem. Its lose - lose for the Palestinians; No land left for a state in the West Bank and continual military incursions in the Gaza Strip.
Sooda Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 Which only means the problem is even more deeply rooted as Palestinian citizens have endorsed Hamas' ideology which rejects Isreal's right to exist and impose and Islamic state in the current Palestine and Israel territories. And this only adds to paranoia of Isreal and Zionists who will continue these military excursions, especially during Israel election times. Whilst that is Hamas' official 'ideology', in practice it is nothing like that there have been extended periods of truce between the two and really Hamas know that Israel as a state will need to exist What no one hears about in these conflicts is attacks by Israeli settlers on Palestinians http://www.alternativenews.org/english/index.php/news/west-bank-and-settlers-violence/5457-israeli-settler-violence-report-may-august-2012.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/19/jewish-settler-attack-terrorist-us-palestinian According to the UN office for humanitarian affairs, the number of settler attacks causing casualties or damage to Palestinian property has increased by 144% between 2009 and 2011(pdf). Three Palestinians were killed and 183 injured by settlers last year; about 10,000 trees were damaged or destroyed; and more than 90% of complaints filed with Israeli police were closed without charges being brought. Officially these attacks are condemned by the israeli state , but it does not stop the army from turning a blind eye. How else are the Palestinians meant to respond
jairamesh Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 Fatah let Israel continue to build settlements in the West Bank and occupy arab East Jerusalem. Its lose - lose for the Palestinians; No land left for a state in the West Bank and continual military incursions in the Gaza Strip. True, damned if they do, damned if they don't. Fatah are too soft whilst Hamas on the other scale. But tbh this whole conflict is one effed-up mess over the last 50 years unlikely to be resolved through violence in the next 50 years, not helped by America's annual massive military aid to Israel. For the RoW, it's that quote by TV newman from Hotel Rwanda: "I think if people see this footage, they'll say oh my God, that's horrible and then they'll go on eating their dinners."
Sooda Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 http://www.smh.com.au/world/israeli-settlers-launch-assault-on-palestinian-agriculture-20121016-27p2x.html#ixzz29WfXaXi0 TWO weeks into the West Bank's annual olive harvest, Israeli settlers have destroyed hundreds of trees and attacked Palestinian farmers in what rights groups warn is a dangerous escalation of violence. Settlers uprooted 300 trees in al-Mughir and Turmusaya villages, cut down 120 trees in Nablus, destroyed 100 olive saplings and 60 vine trees in al-Khader village, uprooted 40 trees in Ras Karkar and assaulted at least four Palestinian farmers, three of whom had to be taken to hospital, the Palestinian Authority reported. Article dates 17th Oct
SLICKR392 Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 Watch Aljazeera news channel. They are following this closely.
Crookbond Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 Anonymous takes down over 650 Israeli sites, wipes databases, leaks email addresses and password http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/11/17/anonymous-takes-down-countless-israeli-sites-wipes-databases-leaks-emails-addresses-and-passwords/ Greetings World For far too long, Anonymous has stood by with the rest of the world and watched in despair the barbaric, brutal and despicable treatment of the Palestinian people in the so called “Occupied Territories” by the Israel Defense Force. Like so many around the globe, we have felt helpless in the face of such implacable evil. And today’s insane attack and threatened invasion of Gaza was more of the same. But when the government of Israel publicly threatened to sever all Internet and other telecommunications into and out of Gaza they crossed a line in the sand. As the former dictator of Egypt Mubarack learned the hard way – we are ANONYMOUS and NO ONE shuts down the Internet on our watch. To the IDF and government of Israel we issue you this warning only once. Do NOT shut down the Internet into the “Occupied Territories”, and cease and desist from your terror upon the innocent people of Palestine or you will know the full and unbridled wrath of Anonymous. And like all the other evil governments that have faced our rage, you will NOT survive it unscathed. To the people of Gaza and the “Occupied Territories”, know that Anonymous stands with you in this fight. We will do everything in our power to hinder the evil forces of the IDF arrayed against you. We will use all our resources to make certain you stay connected to the Internet and remain able to transmit your experiences to the world. As a start, we have put together the Anonymous Gaza Care Package – http://bit.ly/XH87C5 – which contains instructions in Arabic and English that can aid you in the event the Israel government makes good on it’s threat to attempt to sever your Internet connection. It also contains useful information on evading IDF surveillance, and some basic first aid and other useful information. We will continue to expand and improve this document in the coming days, and we will transmit it to you by every means at our disposal. We encourage you to download this package, and to share it with your fellow Palestinians to the best of your ability. We will be with you. No matter how dark it may seem, no matter how alone and abandoned you may feel – know that tens of thousands of us in Anonymous are with you and working tirelessly around the clock to bring you every aid and assistance that we can. We Are Anonymous We Are Everywhere We Are Legion We Do Not Forgive We Do Not Forget To the oppressors of the innocent Palestinian people, it is too late to EXPECT US
Number Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Israel to end 'aggression' Tuesday: Egypt's Morsi http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/Africa/Israel-to-end-aggression-Tuesday-Egypt-s-Morsi/Article1-961968.aspx
ravishingravi Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Lunatic state doing what it does best.
ravishingravi Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 http://chomsky.info/articles/20121104.htm
SLICKR392 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Lunatic state doing what it does best. Are you supposed to sit duck when an other country attacks you?
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