dada vs dhoni

[skindia]

I think the debate regarding who is better captain i.e. Dada V/s. Dhoni must be laid to rest forever. The former was winning test matches overseas on regular basis whereas the later after getting drubbing in 8 tests in row overseas is on the verge losing the home series. No bitterness, mere facts.

[Number]

Ganguly had Dravid, Sachin, Laxman and himself in good form.

[kubrickian]

Dada had a much better, established team. The present team is nowhere as good. All of them are either miserably out of form or just starting out. I also think they dont have the hunger or the passion to do well in test matches.

[skindia]

the main difference is kumble

[skindia]

dada was giving inspiration while dhoni giving excuses

[vamos_rafa]

Dada continously winning test matches abroad is a myth. Excluding Zim and SL, Dada happened to win a grand total of 3 matches outside home. And MS has also won 3. As much as I respect Dada the captain for the attitude he brought in, let's not be blind about certain things.

[Trichromatic]

Sachin during dada's day v Sachin now Dravid in 2002 v Dravid of last 3 years VVS of 2002 v VVS of 2011-12 Kumble v Ashwin :hysterical: Ojha v Bhajji of 2002. Zaheer of 2002 v Zaheer of now.

[vamos_rafa]

Sachin during dada's day v Sachin now Dravid in 2002 v Dravid of last 3 years VVS of 2002 v VVS of 2011-12 Kumble v Ashwin :hysterical: Ojha v Bhajji of 2002. Zaheer of 2002 v Zaheer of now.

Hit the nail on the head. People just don't seem to understand that this team is in transition and we would lose matches along the way. If that means that dhoni the captain has to be sacked then let that happen too. But these kind of threads seems more like venting out one's frustrations.

[maniac]

If sehwag,zak,yuvraj,bhajji,kaif,nehra,pathan,balaji came into the team around dada s time and did well in home and away conditions vs all the talent tha was introduced during dhoni s time....dada must have done something right as a captain. Now before people start saying that this is about test kirkut,please evaluate dhoni s performance in odi since wc victory minus sl.....please feel free to bring in t20is as well Any way this is a yawn topic

[The Outsider]

Both were above average captains. Best Indian captains IMO have been Pataudi, Wadekar, and Dravid.

[Ram]

Both were above average captains. Best Indian captains IMO have been Pataudi' date=' Wadekar, and Dravid.[/quote'] Dravid above Dada? :WTF:

[Trichromatic]

Dravid above Dada? :WTF:

Many people would rate Dravid over Dada. :dontknow:

[The Outsider]

Dravid above Dada? :WTF:

One of the best on field captains ever, and certainly the best I've seen from India in terms of on field tactics. He's got his blotches as far as team selection and given in too much to Chappell, and is by no means the perfect captain.

[maniac]

Both were above average captains. Best Indian captains IMO have been Pataudi' date=' Wadekar, and Dravid.[/quote'] Forget about all the fighting spirit and other intangible qulaities for a sec,the only reason why the debate is always between dada and Dhoni is because of their accomplishments. The only other name that might sneak up in these debates once in a while is may be Kapil Dev. You might have your reasons to rathe the other 3....dravid especially for his overseas victories but at the end of the day it's overall accomplishments that matter. Now you might say Dhoni will be the clear winner if we just talk in terms of accomplishments,that is where the debate starts and we start measuring accomplishments+intangibles. So that is where Dhoni and Dada lead the pack,followed by others. Now I personally rate Kumble as a very under-rated captain,for the respect he commanded with all his team-mates and how most of them credit him in one way or and just the way he handled transition....Again not a lot to show for

[Ram]

One of the best on field captains ever' date=' and certainly the best I've seen from India in terms of on field tactics. He's got his blotches as far as team selection and given in too much to Chappell, and is by no means the perfect captain.[/quote'] When you use the best captain, it encompasses a multitude of things, not just items like 'on-field tactics' etc. After spending the entire 90s with abysmal record of just a single win outside the subcontinent, there are two individuals who should take the lion's share for the credit for the turnaround in the 2000s - Sehwag and Ganguly. Dada was a mould breaker when it came to Indian cricket. People like Dravid, Kumble and Dhoni emulated his success as captain, but he was the guy who beat the path for them.

[maniac]

^Also I personally rate Dhoni as an average and 'right there at the right time' kinda captain much like Ponting but well credit were due,he still has or atleast has the trophies to show for

[Number]

Ganguly was a revolutionary captain no doubt but he had good team too. Although one question comes is all players like Dravid, Kumble, Sachin, Srinath were there for some time before him but why they were not able to produce results as a team.

[Crookbond]

When you use the best captain, it encompasses a multitude of things, not just items like 'on-field tactics' etc. After spending the entire 90s with abysmal record of just a single win outside the subcontinent, there are two individuals who should take the lion's share for the credit for the turnaround in the 2000s - Sehwag and Ganguly. Dada was a mould breaker when it came to Indian cricket. People like Dravid, Kumble and Dhoni emulated his success as captain, but he was the guy who beat the path for them.

Your last line is always debatable - in any aspect of life, if one makes a path he should get credit for making the path not for the fact that others led through the path. Ganguly was fantastic in terms of many things but to attribute success of Kumble, Dravid et al to Ganguly is being a bit arrogant. To put my point, Ganguly had a player like Dravid who averaged 102 under his 21 Test match wins. I don't think any other captain in the history of Test cricket has that statistic. So, I can extend your line of thinking and attribute Ganguly's success to Dravid but that would be quite naive. In summary, you get credit for what you do - not for what others have done even if you are the first one to do it.

[The Outsider]

When you use the best captain, it encompasses a multitude of things, not just items like 'on-field tactics' etc. After spending the entire 90s with abysmal record of just a single win outside the subcontinent, there are two individuals who should take the lion's share for the credit for the turnaround in the 2000s - Sehwag and Ganguly. Dada was a mould breaker when it came to Indian cricket. People like Dravid, Kumble and Dhoni emulated his success as captain, but he was the guy who beat the path for them.

And Ganguly was a good captain. Nowhere am I saying that Ganguly was a poor captain. However, in the same vein if you are only looking at the results rather than the details, Dravid has a formidable record as a captain as well - first captain to win a test in Pakistan, first captain to win a test in South Africa, winning a test series in WI with a huge personal contribution after 35 years, winning a test series in England after 30 years, only captain to defend a 100 total in recent history. Ganguly did a lot of good things, but he could not build on them. His batting was left in shambles and the team lost to Australia with him skipping out of a test in dubious circumstances, drawing a series to a very weak Pakistan team. Ganguly, as a captain was clearly on decline. But Dravid shored things up and moved them forward as did Kumble and Dhoni in less significant measures. But now we have Dhoni unable to arrest the slide - he is completely clueless in the Ganguly mold on field. A Dravid or Kumble would really help being aware of the game much more than Ganguly and Dhoni were.

[Ram]

And Ganguly was a good captain. Nowhere am I saying that Ganguly was a poor captain. However, in the same vein if you are only looking at the results rather than the details, Dravid has a formidable record as a captain as well - first captain to win a test in Pakistan, first captain to win a test in South Africa, winning a test series in WI with a huge personal contribution after 35 years, winning a test series in England after 30 years, only captain to defend a 100 total in recent history. Ganguly did a lot of good things, but he could not build on them. His batting was left in shambles and the team lost to Australia with him skipping out of a test in dubious circumstances, drawing a series to a very weak Pakistan team. Ganguly, as a captain was clearly on decline. But Dravid shored things up and moved them forward as did Kumble and Dhoni in less significant measures. But now we have Dhoni unable to arrest the slide - he is completely clueless in the Ganguly mold on field. A Dravid or Kumble would really help being aware of the game much more than Ganguly and Dhoni were.

Not surprisingly, your assessment of captains is unfairly weighted towards test cricket (not that Ganguly as a test captain was a shrinking violet either..). Ganguly and Dhoni have presided over two of the most successful eras in the history of Indian ODI cricket, only interrupted by the under-average time under Dravid, which was punctuated by an embarrassing first round exit in WC 2007. Look what we were able to do either side of that (in 03 and 11)