Which is the Greatest country in the world?

[yoda]

You are kidding me, right ?

talking to yourself? :hahaha:

[punjabi_khota]

You are kidding me, right ? Sure, America dominates in the field of scientific discoveries, primarily due to brain drain and the fact that they have over ten times the number of faculty and universities than any other developed nation but make no mistake, virtually every other western nation is competetive with America(once per capita scale is adjusted) for scientific research. Microprocessor devices is a dead heat between USA and Taiwan, mobile phone technology has far bigger contributions to it from Scandinavian countries and Japan than USA, in medical research EU leads the way, etc. Yes, USA has a space program, whopee ding. But seriously, if your career aspirations are to be a successful scientist/engineer, practically anywhere in the western world can give you a fulfilling and satisfying career with plenty of scope of development. Ultimately, the only thing USA does better than rest of the western world, is to cater to the 0.001%, the top echelon of any field, better than the rest, by throwing oodles of money their way. As far as society goes, USA is by no means a shining example of the western world and if living somewhere is your objective, which is not just career aspirations (nevermind the fact that none of us here are the 99.999th percentile in our fields), but also social and societerial issues, USA is far, far behind Scandinavian countries, Germany,New Zealand, Canada, etc.

:hysterical::hysterical: You have no clue what you talking about. :facepalm: There is a reason 99% of top students from India and China head to US for grad school. In my field, 90% of breakthroughs come from people in US. I know 50 other research peers in fields related and unrelated, and not 1 of them would leave US for any country for work related purposes. There is no comparison in most scientific fields.

[Crookbond]

:hysterical::hysterical: You have no clue what you talking about. :facepalm: There is a reason 99% of top students from India and China head to US for grad school. In my field, 90% of breakthroughs come from people in US. I know 50 other research peers in fields related and unrelated, and not 1 of them would leave US for any country for work related purposes. There is no comparison in most scientific fields.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think basic sciences is still ruled by European countries though there is a slight shift in trend.

[panther]

Scotland.

[Muloghonto]

:hysterical::hysterical: You have no clue what you talking about. :facepalm: There is a reason 99% of top students from India and China head to US for grad school. In my field, 90% of breakthroughs come from people in US. I know 50 other research peers in fields related and unrelated, and not 1 of them would leave US for any country for work related purposes. There is no comparison in most scientific fields.

1. 90% of Indian and Chinese students head to the US because 90% of foreign student capacity is in the US. US has thousands of universities, the next most prolific western nation does not even have a 100. 2. Ofcourse in some fields the US dominates. but it is nowhere close to dominating the science field as you claimed. I will state again, in my field ( and i would be surprised if you have more experience than me- not many 40 year olds here i presume) Canada is just as prolific and in per capita terms, more prolific. 3. There are plenty of professionals who leave the US to work elsewhere, i can find plenty everywhere in the western world. Fact is, US has only one thing going for it- pure,unlimited income potential. beyond that, it is nowhere close to beign the best place in the western world to live.

[Clarke]

Appropriate and very fair point coming from none other than Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.

MK Gandhi also said something about nations wrt treating animals. All western nations would be massive :fail: in that regard :haha:

[Swing_n_Speed]

Fact is, US has only one thing going for it- pure,unlimited income potential. beyond that, it is nowhere close to beign the best place in the western world to live.

Cent percent correct. Then again how exactly do you create that unlimited income potential? You have to agree that somehow the US manages to create Bill Gate and Zukerbergs, while most other countries create billionaires soley within their political class.

[Dhondy]

This is an interesting phenomenon. Now that Britain has become a poor country, I recently began to ask myself whether I had immigrated to the "right" country many years ago. You can replace "right" with the "best", "richest", "greatest", doesn't matter...it's the same thing. To my surprise, I found that despite going through the same problems that I was- rising taxes, falling incomes, etc, none of my Brit colleagues seemed bothered. They were perfectly happy, at ease with themselves, enjoying life, helping patients, etc, while I worried about my bottom line. It didn't take long to figure out that such introspection was an immigrant phenomenon. Immigrants constantly need to reassure themselves that they live in the best, greatest, wealthiest, etc nation. It's hardwired into their being. That's why they immigrated in the first place- they wanted, no...really, needed to be in the "bestest" place on earth. The corollary is that those who don't have that gnawing insecurity, stay put, are generally happy, and are in many cases doing better than those who emigrated. Here, "doing better" does not necessarily mean financially more robust, but more happy, fulfilled, making a difference to the society one inhabits. I'd like to quote Mariyam as an example of such a person (please read her response above). The conclusion therefore is that the "greatest" country is a chimera. It doesn't exist, or exists only in the mind of immigrants, who constantly need to justify the most important decision they ever made in their lives. If you pushed me, I'd plump for Germany. Any country that rose from ruins post two World Wars, survived hyperinflation in the Weimar Republic, risked ruin by taking on a basically communist basketcase and rebuilt to prosperity while others floundered around from positions of strength, deserves to be feted. I so envy the German discipline and the complete and utter dedication to the greater good. In my next incarnation, perhaps..

[Lurker]

It didn't take long to figure out that such introspection was an immigrant phenomenon. Immigrants constantly need to reassure themselves that they live in the best, greatest, wealthiest, etc nation. It's hardwired into their being. That's why they immigrated in the first place- they wanted, no...really, needed to be in the "bestest" place on earth.

Bingo Doc saab. There is another way to look at this. Immigrants are like recent converts. Naya Musalmaan 5 waqt ka namaazi hota hai. It does not surprise to see why immigrants, specially first generation, love US(or UK or Canada as the case may be). Partially because the large part of their "success" is often done by their parents. The situation between an Indian Engineer/Doctor and West is simple quid pro-quo. West gets a finished product at minimal cost, East gets a good style of living. Had every Indian who loves US, for example, had to put himself through school and college, pay off loans and be in debt for a long time....yes then I would take a bit more seriously their desire to consider West as greatest or whatever. That aside, Britain deserves props for how it has taken care of its culture even with modern day capitalism and globalization (not to mention loss of being a world power). For a small country its size its creativity is infectious and amazing.

[Jersey #10]

Canada actually has very good weather' date= I can't stand hot weather of India and Australia. Actually North Indians don't even feel much cold in Canada, it's the South Indian who can't tolerate Canada. Plus Canada has very good heating system everywhere. Places like Calgary, Surrey, Brampton, Mississauga are awesome. I adjusted to Canadian weather quickly. Also you will feel at home in Canada, millions of desi here.

How ignorant can you be? :facepalm: Are you telling me that a north Indian is fine going out in -30 degrees Celsius without a jacket? Even the white people can't bear it. How do you heat the outside? that's if you have a job or go to school or any means of going outside for 8 - 9 months of winter. I've lived in Toronto for 3 years and it's terrible.

[punjabi_khota]

1. 90% of Indian and Chinese students head to the US because 90% of foreign student capacity is in the US. US has thousands of universities, the next most prolific western nation does not even have a 100.

You missed my point. I said 99% of TOP students, not all students. As a personal example, I can state that of about 200 IIT students I personally know, only 3 of them are in EU, zero in Australia, 1 or 2 in Canada. 50 of them are in US.

2. Ofcourse in some fields the US dominates. but it is nowhere close to dominating the science field as you claimed. I will state again, in my field ( and i would be surprised if you have more experience than me- not many 40 year olds here i presume) Canada is just as prolific and in per capita terms, more prolific.

Don't flatter yourself. I have interacted with enough 60 year old researchers to know something about the quality of science and technology worldwide. And what is the deal with per capita bullcrap ? Since when is greatness measured per capita ? Size matters when talking about greatness and opportunities.

3. There are plenty of professionals who leave the US to work elsewhere

I am talking science and technology only. Very rare to see in most fields I am aware of. People leave US mostly by compulsion since the competition is higher in US.

, i can find plenty everywhere in the western world.

Good for you.

Fact is, US has only one thing going for it- pure,unlimited income potential.

Nope. In fact in US, plenty of researchers (in say) pure sciences are rather underpaid. The billions of dollars in NSF aren't going to make your average professor or national lab researcher a multi-millionaire.

[Brainfade]

It didn't take long to figure out that such introspection was an immigrant phenomenon. Immigrants constantly need to reassure themselves that they live in the best, greatest, wealthiest, etc nation. It's hardwired into their being. That's why they immigrated in the first place- they wanted, no...really, needed to be in the "bestest" place on earth. The corollary is that those who don't have that gnawing insecurity, stay put, are generally happy, and are in many cases doing better than those who emigrated. Here, "doing better" does not necessarily mean financially more robust, but more happy, fulfilled, making a difference to the society one inhabits. I'd like to quote Mariyam as an example of such a person (please read her response above).

First off, good to see you back here. I beg to differ on the first quoted paragraph. Many, possibly a majority, of us moved not because we wanted to move to our perceived notion of "best" nation. We moved simply because we found an opportunity which, at that point in time, did not exist in our birth-land. On a personal note, I was much better prepared to succeed in the GRE and receive admission and scholarship in a US university than I was in an Indian (or British or German) institution of solid repute. Second, the area of research that I wanted to pursue in 1992 was still in its infancy in India, but was well-advanced here. That was the draw. Nothing more, nothing less.

The conclusion therefore is that the "greatest" country is a chimera. It doesn't exist, or exists only in the mind of immigrants, who constantly need to justify the most important decision they ever made in their lives. If you pushed me, I'd plump for Germany. Any country that rose from ruins post two World Wars, survived hyperinflation in the Weimar Republic, risked ruin by taking on a basically communist basketcase and rebuilt to prosperity while others floundered around from positions of strength, deserves to be feted. I so envy the German discipline and the complete and utter dedication to the greater good. In my next incarnation, perhaps..

Based on those very valid criteria, one could make a case for Japan. They picked themselves up after Hiroshima and put themselves at or close to the top.

[ganeshran]

Based on those very valid criteria, one could make a case for Japan. They picked themselves up after Hiroshima and put themselves at or close to the top.

Germany has a stronger case if picking itself from ruins is a criteria. They lost WW1, got unfair terms trusted on them at Versailles, spent loads on money on another war, lost that too. A big portion of the country remained a soviet client state till the late 80s and yet it is one of the most advanced and prosperous economies today.

[Clarke]

If we're talking post WWII reconstruction, its hard to ignore USA. It provided 5% worth of its GDP as aid to Europe via the Marshall plan and another 5% before that. It also helped Japan although not as much as Europe. Even as an Indian, its hard to ignore America's greatness despite our cold relations earlier. Crucial points in history from establishment of multiple IITs to our self sufficiency due to the green revolution bear an American stamp on them. Our brilliant students still aspire for their best universities, our best scientists hope to import the latest of their technology. Heck, our bollywood nautankis copy so much from them. I am with PK on scientific & technological prowess and would further add that USA is what limited communist ideology from infecting multiple nations and turning them into genocidal pits. Its USA that has controlled nuclear proliferation and prevented some of the earth from turning into a radioactive ashtray. Most of the nations mentioned as possibly greatest (European nations/Japan) would have ended up as USSR's bi@tch unless the Americans took a firm stand in 1945. So lets just end the story over there.

[ganeshran]

If we're talking post WWII reconstruction, its hard to ignore USA. It provided 5% worth of its GDP as aid to Europe via the Marshall plan and another 5% before that. It also helped Japan although not as much as Europe.

The USA developed by leaps and bounds post WWII but I dont see how that reconstruction compares with Germany which was all but destroyed twice.

I am with PK on scientific & technological prowess and would further add that USA is what limited communist ideology from infecting multiple nations and turning them into genocidal pits. Its USA that has controlled nuclear proliferation and prevented some of the earth from turning into a radioactive ashtray. Most of the nations mentioned as possibly greatest (European nations/Japan) would have ended up as USSR's bi@tch unless the Americans took a firm stand in 1945. So lets just end the story over there.

For all my admiration of the scientific and technological achievements of the US, the rest of your post seems right out of a right winger's handbook propounding american exceptionalism. The soft power and the fact that it ended on the victor's side in WWII does not discount the fact that the United States perpetrated genocide in Japan killing 300000 people in two days and causing generations and generations of people to be born disabled and dying early due to cancer. To add to that the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians killed in Iraq/Afghanistan simply because they were ruled by fanatics, fanatics which the US itself had propped up at a time when their strategic importance led them to be called "freedom fighters" rather than terrorist scum. Add to that democratic governments which were destabilized, dictatorships which were propped up simply because they were friendly to the US (Mubarak, Gadhafi among others). The United States has supported democracy/freedom of expression in the rest of the world when it suited them and kept quiet/actively opposed when the outcome was not so favorable.

[Brainfade]

Germany has a stronger case if picking itself from ruins is a criteria. They lost WW1' date=' got unfair terms trusted on them at Versailles, spent loads on money on another war, lost that too. A big portion of the country remained a soviet client state till the late 80s and yet it is one of the most advanced and prosperous economies today.[/quote'] Fair enough. But, Japan is right there in the conversation. Like you said in a more recent post, they were all but destroyed after Hiro-Naga. But, they came roaring back to dominate the world - not as a "superpower," but in a "useful to the common consumer" kind of way. While Germany is strong today and Japan has stagnated, there was a time - when I was growing up - when Japan was *the* high bar. For the discussion from this perspective, I'd put them 1(a) and 1(b).

[Clarke]

The USA developed by leaps and bounds post WWII but I dont see how that reconstruction compares with Germany which was all but destroyed twice.

My point was the immense American assistance in reconstruction besides its growth.

For all my admiration of the scientific and technological achievements of the US, the rest of your post seems right out of a right winger's handbook propounding american exceptionalism. The soft power and the fact that it ended on the victor's side in WWII does not discount the fact that the United States perpetrated genocide in Japan killing 300000 people in two days and causing generations and generations of people to be born disabled and dying early due to cancer. To add to that the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians killed in Iraq/Afghanistan simply because they were ruled by fanatics, fanatics which the US itself had propped up at a time when their strategic importance led them to be called "freedom fighters" rather than terrorist scum.

I don't call it American exceptional-ism, its simply what's on the table and the alternative. America took the lead in development of the atomic bomb to ensure they were ahead of the third reich by all means possible. Sure they used the nuke, but who wouldn't want to save tens of thousands of young soldiers of their country that were dying in the war every month ? Lets not forget losing half a million of your soldiers to the fascists doesn't earn them any sympathy. The part where they messed up in Afghanistan was leaving abruptly & the second Iraq misadventure. Can you imagine a rampaging unhindered USSR in Central Asia, the trail of death & destruction that would leave ?

Add to that democratic governments which were destabilized, dictatorships which were propped up simply because they were friendly to the US (Mubarak, Gadhafi among others). The United States has supported democracy/freedom of expression in the rest of the world when it suited them and kept quiet/actively opposed when the outcome was not so favorable.

And kept a check on the overall scheme of things, that's what I'm talking about! You wouldn't want random dictators carrying nukes in the middle east. US doesn't even import much energy from that area, they get most of it from Canada/Gulf of Mexico. All those secure energy supplies are for the so called greatest nations on earth :haha: ==== BTW is a nation great (forget greatest) if it can't protect itself or what it deems critical assets for its survival & prosperity :hmmm: I'm surprised there's not a single mention of security in the discussion.

[Texy]

For me US is the greatest nation on earth. I haven't lived in other countries except India so can't judge other nations but here in the US...it's not a hypocritical/condescending society. No one judges if you don't wear a suit to work everyday. No one judges you if you decide to go back to college at age 45 and start a new career. You can be anything and everything here. You can be a toilet cleaner's son and still one day become a CEO or even the President. I mean every country has its flaw, corruption, crime, politics but here you are truly part of the democracy. Here your voice gets heard. You can truly exercise your democratic rights and make a difference.

[Stuge]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq8y_Wkrs3c]National Anthem Of Kazakhstan (With Lyrics) - YouTube[/ame] :giggle:

Kazakhstan greatest country in the world. All other countries are run by little girls. Kazakhstan number one exporter of potassium. Other countries have inferior potassium. Kazakhstan home of Tinshein swimming pool. Its length thirty meter and width six meter. Filtration system a marvel to behold. It remove 80 percent of human solid waste.

[akshayxyz]

This is an interesting phenomenon. Now that Britain has become a poor country, I recently began to ask myself whether I had immigrated to the "right" country many years ago. You can replace "right" with the "best", "richest", "greatest", doesn't matter...it's the same thing. To my surprise, I found that despite going through the same problems that I was- rising taxes, falling incomes, etc, none of my Brit colleagues seemed bothered. They were perfectly happy, at ease with themselves, enjoying life, helping patients, etc, while I worried about my bottom line. It didn't take long to figure out that such introspection was an immigrant phenomenon. Immigrants constantly need to reassure themselves that they live in the best, greatest, wealthiest, etc nation. It's hardwired into their being. That's why they immigrated in the first place- they wanted, no...really, needed to be in the "bestest" place on earth. The corollary is that those who don't have that gnawing insecurity, stay put, are generally happy, and are in many cases doing better than those who emigrated. Here, "doing better" does not necessarily mean financially more robust, but more happy, fulfilled, making a difference to the society one inhabits. I'd like to quote Mariyam as an example of such a person (please read her response above). The conclusion therefore is that the "greatest" country is a chimera. It doesn't exist, or exists only in the mind of immigrants, who constantly need to justify the most important decision they ever made in their lives. If you pushed me, I'd plump for Germany. Any country that rose from ruins post two World Wars, survived hyperinflation in the Weimar Republic, risked ruin by taking on a basically communist basketcase and rebuilt to prosperity while others floundered around from positions of strength, deserves to be feted. I so envy the German discipline and the complete and utter dedication to the greater good. In my next incarnation, perhaps..

This.

Bingo Doc saab. There is another way to look at this. Immigrants are like recent converts. Naya Musalmaan 5 waqt ka namaazi hota hai. It does not surprise to see why immigrants, specially first generation, love US(or UK or Canada as the case may be). Partially because the large part of their "success" is often done by their parents. The situation between an Indian Engineer/Doctor and West is simple quid pro-quo. West gets a finished product at minimal cost, East gets a good style of living. Had every Indian who loves US, for example, had to put himself through school and college, pay off loans and be in debt for a long time....yes then I would take a bit more seriously their desire to consider West as greatest or whatever. .

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