saneindian Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 No, Kohli having a few good series does not garantee him a test spot, neither does it do it for Pujara. Tendu did not become captain in his first couple years, neither did Azhar, Ganguly, Dravid, Kumble or Dhoni. You have to give captaincy to a player you are confident will be around for atleast 3-5 years, if not longer and even if he has an entire year (three-four series) averaging 30 or so with the bat, are willing to say 'bad year, better luck next year'. Nobody except Dhoni & Sehwag qualify for that criteria, neither Pujara or Kohli are secure in the team- they are one/two terrible series away from being scrapped. http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=286999&highlight=sehwag http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=292089&highlight=sehwag
Muloghonto Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Whatever be the arguement.Fact is Captain is responsible for his team.He got the credit and its time he got the brickbats.Captaincy is not dhonis fathers property{even if he thinks so} ' date='He had his time now it should be up to others.[/quote'] The only 'other' who satisfies the basic criteria of captaincy ( a certainty in the team for the next few years) is Sehwag. As such, captaincy defaults back to Dhoni. if we want a change in captain, Sehwag is the only choice. Otherwise, we stick with Dhoni for another 2-3 years and then give it to one of Pujara,Kohli or anyone else who's had 20-40 tests under their belt and have indicated they are here to stay in the team.
The Outsider Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 So you want Dhoni removed for non performance but want Sehwag or Gambhir elevated as captain despite being non performers? I want Dhoni to be removed as captain because of his non performance as captain. As players all of them have been mediocre recently, but with Sehwag at least one can hope he will regain some form because he is one of the greatest openers the game has seen. I am not asking for Dhoni, the player to be dropped as of now, but Dhoni the captain.
Muloghonto Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=286999&highlight=sehwag http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=292089&highlight=sehwag The solution to Sehwag is simple: move him to the middle order.
CG Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 The only 'other' who satisfies the basic criteria of captaincy ( a certainty in the team for the next few years) is Sehwag. As such, captaincy defaults back to Dhoni. if we want a change in captain, Sehwag is the only choice. Otherwise, we stick with Dhoni for another 2-3 years and then give it to one of Pujara,Kohli or anyone else who's had 20-40 tests under their belt and have indicated they are here to stay in the team. what 2-3 years.Our test status would be in jeopardy by then.
Crookbond Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 And you are saying that I am abusing the discussion? You know I said that due to smiley overdose (a condition which is affecting online forums) didn't you? You brought in IPL and domestic cricket as a criteria to choose Indian cricket team captain, which is quite a ridiculous notion in the first place because none of the Indian captains from the last 20 years or so would have captained their teams for a long stretch in domestic cricket in the first place. How many domestic games had Dhoni captained before he became Indian captain? Glad - I wanted you to make this point. So, there is no evidence to suggest Sehwag would be better than Dhoni by any past evidence. It's a matter of gut (as I made the point before). Just like you say Sehwag, I will say Tendulkar is better. There is no way to prove either point of ours so let us not rubbish each other's opinion by using any sorcery. Where did I say Dhoni was the single point of failure? Back to your favorite method of "arguing" by putting words in someone's mouth and proving them wrong rather than the original point being made? Let's see if you are capable of producing a quote where I claimed Dhoni to be the single point of failure. Why have this discussion at all? Not just single point of failure but the major reason of failure. There is nothing to suggest that Sehwag would be a different captain than Dhoni. If he was radically different, he would have the balls do show that in the opportunities he has had (limited albiet). However, not only did he follow Dhoni's footsteps but also gave a result which was mere identical to the rest of the losses.
Crookbond Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Whatever be the arguement.Fact is Captain is responsible for his team.He got the credit and its time he got the brickbats.Captaincy is not dhonis fathers property{even if he thinks so} ' date=He had his time now it should be up to others. By the same argument, it is not your property either - so you should not comment about it. Brickbats just like credits should be fair and be made in equanimity. Overdose of either is just propaganda.
saneindian Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 I want Dhoni to be removed as captain because of his non performance as captain. As players all of them have been mediocre recently' date=' but with S[b']ehwag at least one can hope he will regain some form because he is one of the greatest openers the game has seen. I am not asking for Dhoni, the player to be dropped as of now, but Dhoni the captain. Despite knowing that he is in a terrible state fitness wise (perhaps at his worst) and that we play 3 tests in SA, 3 in NZ and 5 in England in the next 18 months? In any case, he hasnlt looked out of form., A guy out of form cannot score flawless cover drives and cuts in the 1st 4-5 overs of a test match like Sehwag has done most of the times. It's his complacence that has been a problem.
Magneto Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 what 2-3 years.Our test status would be in jeopardy by then. I don't think NZ can whitewash us. The rest probably will. So, not much worry about Test status. :giggle:
Number Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Despite knowing that he is in a terrible state fitness wise (perhaps at his worst) and that we play 3 tests in SA, 3 in NZ and 5 in England in the next 18 months? In any case, he hasnlt looked out of form., A guy out of form cannot score flawless cover drives and cuts in the 1st 4-5 overs of a test match like Sehwag has done most of the times. It's his complacence that has been a problem. So you want to the team to remain unchanged and play the same team from last series?
CG Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 By the same argument' date=' it is not your property either - so you should not comment about it. Brickbats just like credits should be fair and be made in equanimity. Overdose of either is just propaganda.[/quote'] 4-0 in eng,4-0 in aus,Odi whitewash in eng,Cb series not able to make finals,Asia cup,Home series defeat to england,PAK ODIS and he is not sacked? I am not captain of india to hold on to that.
Muloghonto Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 what 2-3 years.Our test status would be in jeopardy by then. It is already in jeopardy. If you have a problem but no viable solution, the problem remains. As i said, it is completely insane to think an unestablished player can be captain. Graeme Smith did it because he was a captain since the U-15 days and was a clear-cut 'alltime great' potential as an opening bat (Graeme smith averages 50 as opener. Prior to him, the best Saffie opener to play more than half a dozen or so tests is Kirstien, with 44 average). Plus, he proved his chops by scoring an astonishing amount of runs for an opener. None of our newbies in the test team have that kind of captaincy & batting pedigree to back them up, as i said, even Pujara is one/two terrible series away from being dropped.
The Outsider Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 You know I said that due to smiley overdose (a condition which is affecting online forums) didn't you? What am I supposed to do when you are judging Sehwag's captaincy based on one test where he was filling in? Bow to your astute insight of drawing such profound conclusions based on one test? Glad - I wanted you to make this point. So, there is no evidence to suggest Sehwag would be better than Dhoni by any past evidence. It's a matter of gut (as I made the point before). Just like you say Sehwag, I will say Tendulkar is better. There is no way to prove either point of ours so let us not rubbish each other's opinion by using any sorcery. But based on your criteria, there is evidence to suggest that Gambhir will be better. The difference between Sehwag and Tendulkar/Dhoni is that Tendulkar/Dhoni are tried and tested failures whereas Sehwag has not got a decent run. Why have this discussion at all? Not just single point of failure but the major reason of failure. There is nothing to suggest that Sehwag would be a different captain than Dhoni. If he was radically different, he would have the balls do show that in the opportunities he has had (limited albiet). However, not only did he follow Dhoni's footsteps but also gave a result which was mere identical to the rest of the losses. He did set a more attacking field for a longer time. It did not work and the result was the same but he showed a more aggressive approach which would yield better results over a larger sample of matches than a one off test.
saneindian Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 So you want to the team to remain unchanged and play the same team from last series? Nope but then I don't want changes just for the sake of it. Kohli IMO is the only option but his recent struggle with the bat will delay him being made the captain. Needed some good consistent scores. Gambhir or Sehwag do not deserve to be captain much the same as Dhoni doesn't deserve to be the captain. TO simply put it, I want Gadkari to go but do not want Rajnath Singh as the captain either :--D
PSB_Zone Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 See after all these seniors retiring & out of team Like lakshman, sachin, sehwag, dravid, zaheer and bhajji...First time Dhoni has the opportunity to announce himself as test captain.He will gel well with the yongster.. Second reason we dont hv alternative so he is our best bet.. rahane, dhawan/vijay,pujara,sharma,kohli,raina,dhoni ,ashwin,ojha,yadav,ishant I do think dhoni well feel more relaxed as earlier he cant say anything to seniors Now all are below his age..
CG Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Nope but then I don't want changes just for the sake of it. Kohli IMO is the only option but his recent struggle with the bat will delay him being made the captain. Needed some good consistent scores. Gambhir or Sehwag do not deserve to be captain much the same as Dhoni doesn't deserve to be the captain. TO simply put it, I want Gadkari to go but do not want Rajnath Singh as the captain either :--D Was clarke in great form when he got captaincy,how good was dhoni keeping in eng and batting in aus when he got captaincy,was alan border in great form when he got captaincy?
Laaloo Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Give shewag or anybody captaincy for 3-4 series then judje. It's sehwag not shewag
CG Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 It's sehwag not shewag Oh i always mistype.Sehwag.
Crookbond Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 It's sehwag not shewag The best comment in the entire discussion! :haha: CG - Kitni baar bolna hoga yeh?
The Outsider Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Despite knowing that he is in a terrible state fitness wise (perhaps at his worst) and that we play 3 tests in SA, 3 in NZ and 5 in England in the next 18 months? In any case, he hasnlt looked out of form., A guy out of form cannot score flawless cover drives and cuts in the 1st 4-5 overs of a test match like Sehwag has done most of the times. It's his complacence that has been a problem. Out of the three, he still is the best bet to score runs. I agree with you on the complacence part and have remarked on it earlier as well. Even in Australia and NZ it wasn't always his technical problems which got him, but things like hitting full tosses from spinners straight up in the air when he was well set.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now