Lord Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 You cannot ignore conditions. They are the most important aspect. In tough conditions it can be difficult to even chase 100 forget about 183. But anyhow that's your perspective though the point remains that even in two attempts combined Tendulkar could not cross the derided 33 runs. Itna kya pressure ho gaya ki he wasn't able to even get into the 20s. Sehwag scored in '03, Dravid scored in '03, Gambhir scored in '11, Dhoni scored in '11. By your pressure theory they all should have failed as well. I'm not denying he failed.I'm saying you are reading too much into that.
harmuk Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I'm not denying he failed.I'm saying you are reading too much into that.Yes any test Tendulkar does not pass, we should not read too much into it. Cue: World cup finals - Not that important.
vamos_rafa Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I'm not denying he failed.I'm saying you are reading too much into that. Sachin has a decent record in QFs and SFs. Agreed one of the knocks against Kenya in the 2003 WC, but overall he has done well in the eliminators where the pressure is as much as there in the finals.
JaFanatic Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Sure' date=' as I said average coupled with runs and S/R are the recipe. But then Afridi does not pass muster with his average IMO. But someone like a Gilly with a 35+ avg, who can just take away a game in a few overs with some sort of a consistency (heck he even determined the fate of the WC finals couple of times with in a few overs of start of the game, demoralising the opponent with his assault, in a famed line up standing out). That is something special and makes Gilly what he is.[/quote'] i say it again sr is just a bonus you dont really need it to rate an odi batsman. In a grand stage like world cup performing throughout the tournament is as much important as performing in the finals. if you still need the help of sr to make others believe that gilly is better bat there is she-wag with 35+ avg and 100+ sr for you
I6MTW Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 Dhoni greatest odi batsmen ever. Sachin and Viv are debatable for 2nd.
JaFanatic Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Yes any test Tendulkar does not pass, we should not read too much into it. Cue: World cup finals - Not that important. yes just like how you dont read too much into his performance throughout the tournament
vamos_rafa Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Dhoni greatest odi batsmen ever. Sachin and Viv are debatable for 2nd. Why? both Dhoni and viv have scored in WC finals. so, what's the clincher for Dhoni?
harmuk Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 i say it again sr is just a bonus you dont really need it to rate an odi batsman performing throughout the tournament is as much important as performing in the finals. if you still need the help of sr to make others believe that he is better bat there is she-wag with 35+ avg and 100+ sr!May be for some She-wag is the best One day bat out there. Who knows? These ratings are all subjective anyways, unless someone can have a metric out there like Bradman's 100 test average then it becomes difficult to argue. But none of Tendulkar's metrics are an outlier be it S/R, Average even if you were to take a portion of his career and extrapolate (like any stretch of 150 or 180 games in any stage of his career). His records are an off shoot of his longevity and thus he is the greatest accumulator of all time or call him a run-machine like no other, which necessarily does not mean he is the best ODI batsman ever, which is easily arguable.
JaFanatic Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 May be for some She-wag is the best One day bat out there. Who knows? These ratings are all subjective anyways' date=' unless someone can have a metric out there like Bradman's 100 test average then it becomes difficult to argue. But none of Tendulkar's metrics are an outlier be it S/R, Average even if you were to take a portion of his career and extrapolate (like any stretch of 150 or 180 games in any stage of his career). His records are an off shoot of his longevity and thus he is the greatest accumulator of all time or call him a run-machine like no other, which necessarily does not mean he is the best ODI batsman ever, which is easily arguable.[/quote'] even pujara would avg over 100 if he have to face a below avg bowling attack throughout his career
I6MTW Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 Why? both Dhoni and viv have scored in WC finals. so' date=' what's the clincher for Dhoni?[/quote'] While Viv could score aggressively he would get out after playing too many shots.(That's what happened in wc 83). Sehwag is very similar to him. Dhoni performs under any kind of pressure on any pitches when he is in peak form. He has the whole ODI game plan in his grasp. He will start by building momentum in a partnership and in the end he will play huge aggressive shots(not slogged shots but actual timed beautiful shots) and in the end take his team to a decent total and remain not out. He is the greatest finisher of all time and if he would've batted up the order more times he would've scored more hundreds and even a double hundred or two. Eg. India was 29-5(Ind vs Pak 2012 ODI) when Dhoni came in and his world class innings of 113* brought them too 227 when they looked like being out for 100.
cricketpitch Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 The greatest thing about Sachin's test record is that, he averages at least 40 in every country he has played in. A record no other modern player during his time has achieved. Ponting has struggled in India, Lara in both India and New Zealand. Sachin has the best record for an sub continent player in South Africa. He is a great, no matter what people call it. Not having a single anomaly like that of Lara or Ponting in a test career spanning 24 years and almost 200 tests is an amazing achievement. Ponting's average of 26 in India, Lara's average of 34 in India and 36 in NZ are huge anomalies considering their overall records.
JaFanatic Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 While Viv could score aggressively he would get out after playing too many shots.(That's what happened in wc 83). Sehwag is very similar to him. Dhoni performs under any kind of pressure on any pitches when he is in peak form. He has the whole ODI game plan in his grasp. He will start by building momentum in a partnership and in the end he will play huge aggressive shots(not slogged shots but actual timed beautiful shots) and in the end take his team to a decent total and remain not out. He is the greatest finisher of all time and if he would've batted up the order more times he would've scored more hundreds and even a double hundred or two. Eg. India was 29-5(Ind vs Pak 2012 ODI) when Dhoni came in and his world class innings of 113* brought them too 227 when they looked like being out for 100. :cantstop:
I6MTW Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 Yes even great deliveries Dhoni plays through them with relative ease when he looks to attack. He's extremely hard to dismiss.
vamos_rafa Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 While Viv could score aggressively he would get out after playing too many shots.(That's what happened in wc 83). Sehwag is very similar to him. Dhoni performs under any kind of pressure on any pitches when he is in peak form. He has the whole ODI game plan in his grasp. He will start by building momentum in a partnership and in the end he will play huge aggressive shots(not slogged shots but actual timed beautiful shots) and in the end take his team to a decent total and remain not out. He is the greatest finisher of all time and if he would've batted up the order more times he would've scored more hundreds and even a double hundred or two. Eg. India was 29-5(Ind vs Pak 2012 ODI) when Dhoni came in and his world class innings of 113* brought them too 227 when they looked like being out for 100. Please understand one thing. Sachin was an opener in ODIs. His job was to set up matches. The finishing business, generally, is performed by those who come down the order like Dhoni or Bevan. Rest, I don't believe in could've would've.
I6MTW Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 Could Sachin play an innings like dhoni if India was 29-5? Plus every time Dhoni has come early to the crease it has resulted in him getting a Ton. Plus he has the highest score for chasing.
GoldenSun Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Could Sachin play an innings like dhoni if India was 29-5? Plus every time Dhoni has come early to the crease it has resulted in him getting a Ton. Plus he has the highest score for chasing. Like Vamos Rafa explained, Sachin is an opener, not a finisher.
Sachinism Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 122 average, striking at 114 in World Cup Finals.... Let's not forget about Mahela as a great ODI batsman
JaFanatic Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 122 average' date=' striking at 114 in World Cup Finals.... Let's not forget about Mahela as a great ODI batsman[/quote'] so its not gilly but jaya the best ever in the history of ODI
NareshK Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 122 average' date=' striking at 114 in World Cup Finals.... Let's not forget about Mahela as a great ODI batsman[/quote'] And still lost. :winky:
vamos_rafa Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Could Sachin play an innings like dhoni if India was 29-5? Plus every time Dhoni has come early to the crease it has resulted in him getting a Ton. Plus he has the highest score for chasing. Sachin has saved our arses on numerous occasions.
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