Random discussion featuring Bongs, marathas and much much more

[Desi Cartman]

Join the club on Grandpa fighting in Indian freedom struggle. And yes they all did so for the greater good of India and not any one community. That said, SL's grievance, misled as it is (in my opinion) is not entirely without point. Somehow in the past couple of decades (or so) many of the freedom luminaries have been forgotten. Folks like Rasbihari Bose, Kittur ki Rani Chennamma, Kunwar Singh, Bagha Jatin etc have been forgotten, or relegated to history books. Some of our heroes have been made a poster boy, Bhagat Singh, for example. This is not something even Bhagat Singh would have wanted. He was a Bismil and Udham Singh shagird, but chances are those who celebrate Bhagat Singh dont often know about Bismil and Shaheed Uddham Singh. This lack of knowledge is all around, and growing. Where SL is going wrong is thinking it was all part of conspiracy lol when it is simply ignorance at best, and intellactual decay at worst.

Yes but the theory that one region fought more for freedom than the others is not valid. What about people who died in jalianwala bagh ? What about countless men who got beaten up during protests ? There is no count, of course some of them were leaders and are still remembered but most have been forgotten.

[Prakat]

Outy!

[Muloghonto]

Yes but the theory that one region fought more for freedom than the others is not valid. What about people who died in jalianwala bagh ? What about countless men who got beaten up during protests ? There is no count' date=' of course some of them were leaders and are still remembered but most have been forgotten.[/quote'] The theory is 100% true and documented. As i said, if you compile a list of Indian freedom fighters- from the ones who were politically involved in it as well as the sheer number of dissidents who actively obstructed british government and got sent to jail for it, the Bongs are *THE* dominant group. Simple facts such as jail ledgers confirm it. Of all the major dissidents in the nation, almost all got sent to Kalapani. Not till the early 1900s did political personnel go to Kalapani and the ledgers of Kalapani are heavily slanted towards Bengalis. The same is true according to British transcripts.

[Muloghonto]

@SachinLara lol...just because you only heard of Bhagat Singh, doesn't mean there were no other Punjabis/Sikhs or any other community. .

My point isnt that there wasnt a single punjabi or sikh involved in the passive or aggressive stance towards Quit India. My point is, as facts will show you by any objective benchmarks, the bulk of the work was done by Bengalis, especially if you look at prior to mid 1920s, when Gandhi got rest of India involved to a far greater degree. For every one punjabi freedom fighter, as names of registered offenders list will show you, there were five Bong freedom fighter. And that is the reality of it.

[Old guy]

wow

[Crookbond]

L'Etranger, Just proved a point there and I don't see anything wrong in it. Do unto others as you expect to be done to yourself. Yes - there could be a better example but well there could have been a better way to express that opinion on the other thread as well. Like I said it on the Swiss Rape Thread

As said earlier, all Hi Fi logic goes out of toss when it is "my community, my family, my wife and my kid". Rules for others, exceptions for oneself.

http://indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=2300728&postcount=61

[Yoda-esque]

L'Etranger' date=' Just proved a point there and I don't see anything wrong in it. [i']Do unto others as you expect to be done to yourself. Yes - there could be a better example but well there could have been a better way to express that opinion on the other thread as well. Like I said it on the Swiss Rape Thread http://indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=2300728&postcount=61

As long as other's posts are not deleted for making offensive remarks about other poster's families we are fine .

[adi B]

[The Outsider]

I've made my point and deleted my posts which had references to his family.

[Lurker]

Yes but the theory that one region fought more for freedom than the others is not valid. What about people who died in jalianwala bagh ? What about countless men who got beaten up during protests ? There is no count' date= of course some of them were leaders and are still remembered but most have been forgotten.

While I concur with you at a high level, the reality is very different on the ground. a) Some regions did fight more than others. It is not a case of being valid or not, it is called history. For example, the town where you have roots (Meerut) saw more action in 1857 than entire South India combined. Is that an incorrect portrayal of history? Or are we forced to refrain from stating it simply because certain regions of the country would be upset? b) In cases where certain regions, or groups, of people did contribute relatively more than others, it is very fair (in my humble opinion) for people from these very region to feel a sense of pride. I mean a Mumbaikar takes pride in Tendulkar, a simple cricket player and that is considered okay. But a Bengali taking pride in Rasbihari Bose who made the supreme sacrifice is considered a discriminatory? Why? There is also a case to be made that if the regional folks dont celebrate the heroes, who will? Pardon my cynicism but I am yet to see a Tamilian celebrating Bande Mataram, for crying out loud they would think it was Hindi and start burning the constitution :hysterical::hysterical: It cuts both ways Desi saab. Yes the regionalists (Bongs in case of SachinLara) should not rub it in other people's/regions faces. And also for the other region/people to celebrate Bengali heroes. I see nothing wrong with that premise.

[Magneto]

Good thread!

[Dumbbells]

Bongs are normally short guys and I can understand y they are classified as non martial race by the British people. I remember in my college we had some 100+ bengalis studied with me and most of were tiny. Even the south Indians were taller and had strong bones compared with bengalis. I remember one particular guy and I really thot he had AIDS, he was so tiny, as tiny as nepalis. They could have never made it to the Army. It kinda explains why they did not had a regiment in their part of the world. Look at the important personalities from their part of the world- Rani mukharji, pranab mukarji, mamta banarjee, sagarika ghosh, Ashok dinda, jyothi basu, buddadeb battacharya are all short. They had few medium sized personalities like Sourav ganguly, bipasha pasu etc. But they are less in numbers.

[Muloghonto]

Bongs are normally short guys and I can understand y they are classified as non marital race by the British people. I remember in my college we had some 100+ bengalis studied with me and most of were tiny. Even the south Indians were taller and had strong bones compared with bengalis. I remember one particular guy and I really thot he had AIDS' date=' he was so tiny, as tiny as nepalis. They could have never made it to the Army. It kinda explains why they did not had a regiment in their part of the world. Look at the important personalities from their part of the world- Rani mukharji, pranab mukarji, mamta banarjee, sagarika ghosh, Ashok dinda, jyothi basu, buddadeb battacharya are all short. They had few medium sized personalities like Sourav ganguly, bipasha pasu etc. But they are less in numbers.[/quote'] LOL at 'marshall race' being big tall healthy guys. I dunno where you get such ideas from- as if warfare is about who has the most absolute strength or some gym competition ? Kindly check out how tall and strong *THE* marshall race of the 1900s looked like - The Japanese. Also check out the average height and constitution of the greatest marshall race known to man, the central Asian nomads ( nowadays only Mongol and some Kazakh kinds exist). All of these guys are ten times as 'hardcore' as your tall lumbering Shaquille O neil and weigh less than half as much. Marshall race is about mentality. Not about who has the bigger biceps or who is taller. I cant believe that people say stuff like 'marshall race are big and strong and healthy' when we are perfectly aware of how tiny the Japs are and how the Bushido code makes even the Punjabi warriors of Ranjit Singh era look like halfwit pacifists. Oh and by far the most martially inclined and competent ethnicity from the subcontinent are the Gurkhas. Check out how big they are.

[Muloghonto]

There is a saying- 'Those who refuse to learn from history are bound to repeat its mistakes'. Indians, take heed to that. I am still surprised to find the idea of 'martial race' floating around here. The Pakis made the same mistake- in 1965 and in 1971 they were very much enamoured with the concept of martial race, how the 'paki ghazi = 10 hindu soldiers' type of nonsense and that is the basis (along with the Indian military's tactical and strategic superiority) of their massive loss in both wars. It is because of the whole 'we are a martial race, they are not, so 100 of us should take 10,000 of them' type of addled thinking that lead to such disastrous and stupid plans from them as 'drive through middle of Rajasthan, take Jaipur today, Delhi tomorrow and the non-martial Indians will capitulate'. Even the most successful proponent of martial race theory, the Nazis, realized that race and perceived racial superiority in warfare is not enough to beat the 'inferior slavs' in Russia. That should tell you something about how stupid the idea of 'martial race' is. There is no martial race. There are/were martial cultures- cultures who's value systems emphasized glory in combat and created the mentality that promoted glorious combat through social mechanisms. The modern examples of martial culture would be the WWII era Japanese (followers of Bushido code), the Gurkhas, etc. These cultures are/were successful in persuing a war-like posture, despite inferiority of numbers, logistics and supply because they created the mentality suitable for it. But as war history proves, no amount of morale & martial culture can overcome huge shortfall in logistics, supply and sheer manpower: while the average Jap soldier practiced all day and looked forward to either kill or be killed in the service of the Empire of the Sun, the average Yank just wanted to kill the enemies so they could return to their farm in Kansas or the paper route in Chicago. Yet, the Yanks won- because they were massively superior in logistics, supply & manpower than the Japs. The same way we won against the 'martial race' of the Pakis in two wars. And as i pointed out earlier, the two greatest examples of martial race in modern warfare- the Japanese of WWII era and prior and the Gurkhas, are neither the strongest, tallest or broadest of mankind, they tend to be distinctly on the smaller side of physiques. Beware of falling into the same fallacies that our enemies and other actors have in confusing culture with race.

[punjabi_khota]

Arre dumbbells ki baaton ka bura mat maano...he is bit of a retard..he is talking about Marital race....maybe bongs don't marry too much is what he is saying ?

[Dumbbells]

Martial races were defined by British. Yes, Pakistan army did had that theory till 1971 war. Its one of the reason why they never recruited Bengalis for their army. They killed lakhs of Bangladeshis without any opposition. Only after Indian army's intervention they were freed from Pak army. General Zia ul haq considred Bengalis to be short and non martial race. Hence they were treated as second class citizens. I know u are referring to Gurkhas. Lol, Gurkhas mostly had a life in hills and they were natural fighters and it took years and years for British to conquer their land after such heavy loss. Although they are short, they are physically very fit, have strong bones they were ready to fight at any situation. Don't compare bengalis with Gurkhas. Will u? There a reason why british continue to recruit from Rajputs, Jatts, Gujjars, Sikhs, etc. They certainly had physical strength which is very important for a solider and they had the lifestyle which is suited for war.' No disrespect to bengalis, but when I see tiny bengalis, I don't really consider them as a martial clan. There are few exceptions, but generally u folks are short and not fit for army.

[Lurker]

Martial races were defined by British. Yes, Pakistan army did had that theory till 1971 war. Its one of the reason why they never recruited Bengalis for their army. They killed lakhs of Bangladeshis without any opposition. Only after Indian army's intervention they were freed from Pak army. General Zia ul haq considred Bengalis to be short and non martial race. Hence they were treated as second class citizens. I know u are referring to Gurkhas. Lol, Gurkhas mostly had a life in hills and they were natural fighters and it took years and years for British to conquer their land after such heavy loss. Although they are short, they are physically very fit, have strong bones they were ready to fight at any situation. Don't compare bengalis with Gurkhas. Will u? There a reason why british continue to recruit from Rajputs, Jatts, Gujjars, Sikhs, etc. They certainly had physical strength which is very important for a solider and they had the lifestyle which is suited for war.' No disrespect to bengalis, but when I see tiny bengalis, I don't really consider them as a martial clan. There are few exceptions, but generally u folks are short and not fit for army.

Dude, whats wrong with you? Seriously? Anyone who has ever worked out in a gym, which you look like you do, will know that there is no such thing as a superior/inferior race in terms of physique, or warfare. The only thing important is training. You can make a 5ft guy deadly with the right training. A 6ft guy will do ghanta. Look up India's first known bodybuilder, Manohar Aich. He is a Bengali. Still probably has bigger biceps than you do, and he is 100 years old. Maybe if you looked back home, instead of at Arnold, you wouldnt have made that retarded comment :agree:

[Desi Cartman]

^ I dont think he is the only retard in the thread who is linking abilities to fight or protest to ethnicity or region :cantstop:

[Muloghonto]

Martial races were defined by British. Yes, Pakistan army did had that theory till 1971 war. Its one of the reason why they never recruited Bengalis for their army. They killed lakhs of Bangladeshis without any opposition. Only after Indian army's intervention they were freed from Pak army. General Zia ul haq considred Bengalis to be short and non martial race. Hence they were treated as second class citizens. I know u are referring to Gurkhas. Lol, Gurkhas mostly had a life in hills and they were natural fighters and it took years and years for British to conquer their land after such heavy loss. Although they are short, they are physically very fit, have strong bones they were ready to fight at any situation. Don't compare bengalis with Gurkhas. Will u? There a reason why british continue to recruit from Rajputs, Jatts, Gujjars, Sikhs, etc. They certainly had physical strength which is very important for a solider and they had the lifestyle which is suited for war.'

Brits only started recruting from outside of Bengal due to the 1857 rebellion being started by the Bengal regiment, which at that time was over 60% Bengali. Since the BEIC conquered practically whole of India prior to 1857, just goes to show you how ridiculous this whole 'martial race' theory is, since we Bongs did the conquering for the Brits and beat out the so-called martial races of Punjabis & Marathas with massively superior equipment and military theory. The whole 'physical strength is very important for soldiers' is total BS. The Japs are much smaller than us desis, let alone the bigger Goras, yet the Japs survived a lot better in the most brutal war theatre of WWII: The Burma campaign. Just goes on to show that 'strength' means nothing whatsoever. Soldiers pull a trigger and walk a million miles to get to combat. They arnt doing Pehlwani, so strength is largely as irrelevant as it gets in warfare.

No disrespect to bengalis, but when I see tiny bengalis, I don't really consider them as a martial clan. There are few exceptions, but generally u folks are short and not fit for army.

Well as i said, Gurkhas are just as tiny and the Japs are tinier. yet, the Japs were the foremost martial race till WWII peace treaty forced them to abandon Bushido.

[Lurker]

^ I dont think he is the only retard in the thread who is linking abilities to fight or protest to ethnicity or region :cantstop:

I blame you. Didn't you start the whole South >> North nautanki :doh: