What is MS Dhoni's biggest achievement as captain?

[SLICKR392]

Uff! It's a manner of speaking to imply that the results could have been different and better if we had a better captain and keeper. Don't think any other keeper would have made any difference with the bat. But with better captaincy and keeping the results at Lords, Trent Bridge, and Melbourne could have been different. That is the crux of the argument and not the exact numbers which were written to add masala - how would I know what exactly the numbers could have been and in any case there is no way to verify them.

No, it wouldn't have changed the result. Captaincy had very less role to play in the England tour. Our bowlers and batsmen were pathetic in that series. A captain has got nothing to do with it. We had chance during the Aus series but the 0-4 in England has got nothing to do with the captaincy.

[The Outsider]

No, it wouldn't have changed the result. Captaincy had very less role to play in the England tour. Our bowlers and batsmen were pathetic in that series. A captain has got nothing to do with it. We had chance during the Aus series but the 0-4 in England has got nothing to do with the captaincy.

1. Taking off Ishant when he was England were 60/5 and there was just a lunch break for him to rest. Kaptaan Kool started proceedings after lunch with Raina and Ishant did not bowl for another 10 overs and immediately picked up a wicket. 2. Letting England off the hook at Trent Bridge from 120/8. 3. Recalling Bell when the match was still in balance. 4. Absolutely rubbish captaincy and field placing against Pattinson and Hilfenhaus. And these aren't things of hindsight. These are things which people were commenting on even as they were unfolding. Specially numbers 1 and 4 - even the commentators were baffled why Ishant was taken off and at the fields set to Pattinson and Hilfenhaus at the MCG.

[rkt.india]

What flop show of batting on both tours and then England test series at home has to do with captaincy? It was down to some individuals as they retired and dropped and new blood came in, batting got a bit better though still some question marks there.

[Sidhoni]

No' date=' but 0-8 could have been 2-6 if we had a better kaptaan. It could have been 2-5 if we had a kaptaan who was a wicketkeeper instead of a goalkeeper, and it could have been 2-4 if we had a kaptaan who could bat away from home. Now 2-4 doesn't sound too bad compared to 0-8, does it?[/quote'] Yeah right. The same goalkeeper has the highest no. of dismissals among Indian keepers. I can't even think what other keepers would be like if this guy is a goalkeeper. Maybe you should teach him!

[Austin 3:!6]

MS Dhoni's biggest achievement as a captain is to have inherited a great team which Ganguly built:giggle:

[The Outsider]

What flop show of batting on both tours and then England test series at home has to do with captaincy? It was down to some individuals as they retired and dropped and new blood came in' date=' batting got a bit better though still some question marks there.[/quote'] What has flop show of batting got to do with taking off the bowler who is ripping through the opposition and just had a lunch break? Replaced by a part timer. What has flop show of batting got to do with allowing Pattinson and Hilfenhaus to milk the bowling to their heart's content? What has flop show of batting got to do with recalling an opposition batsman when the game is still in balance?

[asterix]

What has 'flop show of batting' got to do with pathetic field placements and atrocious wicket keeping?

[SLICKR392]

1. Taking off Ishant when he was England were 60/5 and there was just a lunch break for him to rest. Kaptaan Kool started proceedings after lunch with Raina and Ishant did not bowl for another 10 overs and immediately picked up a wicket. 2. Letting England off the hook at Trent Bridge from 120/8. 3. Recalling Bell when the match was still in balance. 4. Absolutely rubbish captaincy and field placing against Pattinson and Hilfenhaus. And these aren't things of hindsight. These are things which people were commenting on even as they were unfolding. Specially numbers 1 and 4 - even the commentators were baffled why Ishant was taken off and at the fields set to Pattinson and Hilfenhaus at the MCG.

1] They were 88/6 and just 2 overs before Lunch he got Ishant out and got the spinners in, for 2 overs. 20 overs had passed since a wicket had fallen so there was no harm in bringing in the spinner for an over or 2 before lunch. Wicket fell straight away after lunch when he opened with Shreeshanth. A gamble before lunch that did not work out but wasn't of any harm either. 2] Letting England off the hook? Again that has got nothing to do with the captaincy. Almost everyone are aware that Broad and Swann are capable batsman and they went out slogging, not defending like Strac. Poor bowling, blaming captaincy for that is a blunder. 3] Agreed. But I know and so do you that it wouldn't have made any difference in the game whatsoever. We were pinned down with Bell at 130 or 140 something. 4] I did agree to the MCG part that we had a chance to win that one out of the 4 matches.

even the commentators were baffled why Ishant was taken off

I don't remember anything such as that happening. An over or 2 before lunch, 20 overs since a wicket is pretty normal. You're just bringing up his field placements when you have got nothing to say about our horrendous batting and bowling during those tours. That's just extreme bias.

[rkt.india]

What has flop show of batting got to do with taking off the bowler who is ripping through the opposition and just had a lunch break? Replaced by a part timer. What has flop show of batting got to do with allowing Pattinson and Hilfenhaus to milk the bowling to their heart's content? What has flop show of batting got to do with recalling an opposition batsman when the game is still in balance?

But do you think flop show of batting was not the biggest reason we lost. We struggled to score 300 on both the tours. Regarding Ishant, it was pretty much the case like Pattinson was removed just after 3 overs while Ishant had bowled lot of overs in that test already. I don't agree with that move but saying we lost just because of that is ridiculous. Nothing went well for them in those tours. Recalling Bell, it was whole team's decision, if it was Dhoni's sole decision, then he would not have appealed in the first place.

[saneindian]

Please merge the thread with KT's 'Dhoni should be sacked from captaincy' thread. Same points being repeated

[The Outsider]

1] They were 88/6 and just 2 overs before Lunch he got Ishant out and got the spinners in, for 2 overs. 20 overs had passed since a wicket had fallen so there was no harm in bringing in the spinner for an over or 2 before lunch. Wicket fell straight away after lunch when he opened with Shreeshanth. A gamble before lunch that did not work out but wasn't of any harm either.

What are you talking about? Checked on cricinfo. Lunch was taken at 67/5 after 31 overs with Ishant having bowled the 30th over. First over after lunch was given to Raina. Ishant was not brought in till the 42nd over when the score was 104/5. He struck immediately in the 44th over. Here are some user comments from cricinfo:

"Is India behind the Over-rate, maybe? Is this why Dhoni is not yet using Ishant?" suggests MK. Perhaps, but there is a Test to win now. I think he just wants to give Sharma a breather. "Dhoni can really make interesting decisions at times...why no Ishant yet?" It is odd, Abhi. Perhaps they feel Praveen and Harbhajan are more suited to cutting off Prior's scoring areas. Ankit is fuming: "Giving Ishant a breather? Really? Hasn't he just had a 40-minute breather during lunch? This is test match cricket and Morgan and Prior are undoing all the good work done by India this morning. Something needs to happen and Ishant is the man for that to happen." Does seem odd, maybe they see Kumar as the threat to these two.

You can also check the ICF match thread if you want.

2] Letting England off the hook? Again that has got nothing to do with the captaincy. Almost everyone are aware that Broad and Swann are capable batsman and they went out slogging, not defending like Strac. Poor bowling, blaming captaincy for that is a blunder.

After Broad slogged a couple of fours, Dhoni immediately brought in Bhajji. The pitch was a first day green top and just because a tailender slogs you for a couple of boundaries doesn't mean a spinner is going to be effective on that wicket.

3] Agreed. But I know and so do you that it wouldn't have made any difference in the game whatsoever. We were pinned down with Bell at 130 or 140 something.

England were ahead by 180 at that time. The lead had grown to 250+ by the time they got rid of Bell. That's a huge difference, not to mention the momentum change such things can bring about.

You're just bringing up his field placements when you have got nothing to say about our horrendous batting and bowling during those tours. That's just extreme bias.

This thread is about his captaincy. The horrendous batting and bowling have been discussed multiple times. Bringing them in to claim that Dhoni's poor captaincy had no impact on the results is a classic case of throwing red herrings.

[Sidhoni]

For Outy : http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-07-26/top-stories/29816194_1_ishant-sharma-lanky-pacer-zaheer-khan

[The Outsider]

But do you think flop show of batting was not the biggest reason we lost. We struggled to score 300 on both the tours. Regarding Ishant, it was pretty much the case like Pattinson was removed just after 3 overs while Ishant had bowled lot of overs in that test already. I don't agree with that move but saying we lost just because of that is ridiculous. Nothing went well for them in those tours. Recalling Bell, it was whole team's decision, if it was Dhoni's sole decision, then he would not have appealed in the first place.

The discussion and thread is about Dhoni's captaincy and the potential impact it had on the tests on those two tours. Batting and bowling have been discussed in many other threads. Your bringing them in is nothing but a distraction to the topic of discussion also called red herring.

[adi B]

For Outy : http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-07-26/top-stories/29816194_1_ishant-sharma-lanky-pacer-zaheer-khan

thats a cover up to save the captain`s @rse !

[Crookbond]

Ishant Sharma on the Lord's Test match spell.

There was one question that lingered immediately after lunch: why did Ishant, a rhythm bowler, not come back and re-start his spell? He said MS Dhoni had asked him if he wanted to continue but he decided that it would be better to play it safe. "I had bowled 11 overs in the first session, and there are three more Test matches coming and it is a long schedule."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/content/story/524594.html Sure - but keep blaming MS Dhoni.

[The Outsider]

For Outy : http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-07-26/top-stories/29816194_1_ishant-sharma-lanky-pacer-zaheer-khan

Ishant Sharma on the Lord's Test match spell. http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/content/story/524594.html Sure - but keep blaming MS Dhoni.

So, why not make Ishant kaptaan if he is going to make all the decisions. The match was in a crucial stage, there had just been a lunch break, and Dhoni should have given a kick on Ishant's bum and asked him to bowl given how we were already a bowler short. Putting the responsibility on Ishant is rubbish - the captain is the ultimate authority on such decisions.

[saneindian]

Wasn't Ishant playing on despite an ankle problem during that Eng series? or was it the Aus series?

[CG]

The discussion and thread is about Dhoni's captaincy and the potential impact it had on the tests on those two tours. Batting and bowling have been discussed in many other threads. Your bringing them in is nothing but a distraction to the topic of discussion also called red herring.

Do not Bother ,The same guys were going Ballistic over Field Placements,Bowling Changes During the English tour and aussie tour,But In Sports u are as good as ur last performance and everything is forgotten until the next debacle. If Somebody Wants to remember the horrors He does not even need to watch the eng or aussie tour highlights .He just needed to watch the aussie tail bat.The Field settings will take u back in time.

[BeautifulGame]

The discussion and thread is about Dhoni's captaincy and the potential impact it had on the tests on those two tours. Batting and bowling have been discussed in many other threads. Your bringing them in is nothing but a distraction to the topic of discussion also called red herring.

Actually the thread is about Dhoni's achievement a a captain not his failure. When u yourself are derailing the thread with off topic discussion it's silly accussing others of the same.

[CG]

I voted for icc world t20 2007 because He was thrown in to the deep end but sailed through .The period till Cbseries 08 was what made dhoni as a captain.I had high hopes from him.