Are Indian fans applying a 'reverse Tebbit test'?

[barfi]

Well over 50% of Indo-Canadians are Punjabi-Canadians, so i understand why they think we are all Sikhs. Most of my friends were/are shocked when i tell them that Punjabis are like 5% of Indian population.

Is it true that most sikhs in Canada are anti-india because of the Khalistan issue and the events of 1984??

[Muloghonto]

Is it true that most sikhs in Canada are anti-india because of the Khalistan issue and the events of 1984??

Sikh dynamics in Canada is something i only know so much about ( I am not Punjabi and I mostly hate Punjabi music. So...anyways) Many are, though not most as far as Khalistanis go. The old generation that got here a long time ago ( 60s-70s) have a high frequency of Khalistanis. Strantely enough, unlike Khalistanis in India, these ones hate Paki punjabis the most (even more than Afghans/Pakhtoons that are here). The younger gen or newer arrived older gens (mostly late 90s to now) are more or less regular desi Punjabis, though there are some Khalistanis too due to higher than average prevalence of older gen/long term ones here tend to be Khalistanis. Even that being said, most Khalistanis tend to be in the Vancouver/Kelowna region. This is the area Sikhs came in first, the oldest & biggest Gurdwaras are here and Sikhs like their shrines. :icflove: If you go to Ontario and find Sikhs there, chances are low they are any different than desi Sikhs if they are under 40 or arrived in the last decade or so. The ones who came over in the 80s though, form the most sinister crowd IMO. They are the 'middle gen' who were directly fleeing/using family contacts to escape the whole Bhindranwala vs India episode. Some Gurdwaras here, you can walk in and see the Granth Sahib, with a picture of Nanak over it with picture frame photos of Bhindranwala and Beant Singh under them. Most though, are normal vanilla Gurdwaras.

[King Tendulkar]

It's the British ones that booed and the student ones who are well behaved.

True that Frankly the behaviour is a lot to do with copying football culture. Chanting silly thing etc etc Ironically its copying brit football culture Mostly not malicious. Just people thinking they are being funny and acting like football fans., when actually its a cricket game!

[Ram]

Bobby Jindal and Nikki Haley' date=' both from red states in fact. Not that I am a fan of either, but they definitely show that assimilation is a reality.[/quote'] Assimilation my ar$e. Both of them rose to the top by being more redneck than the average redneck in the South. :hysterical: Its like saying a tiger assimilated into a herd of cows, except that it does not roar anymore but moos and it grazes the field all day and eats grass. Jindal and Haley are not proof's of assimilation or acceptance. If anything, it proves that the only way for immigrants to rise to to the top is to completely run away from their immigrant roots and act, look and feel local.

[Muloghonto]

A better example of integration leading to high profile political career in North America would be Ujjwal Dossanjh. He's pagri-less but as Punjabi as they come.

[hassan_113]

Indians of Indian origin will support India regard less where they are born @Hassan Pakistan murdabad was wrong according to you but what about words like are you watching India bringing religion into cricket by Pak fans.

Minority of fans were idiots on both sides. Are you not saying it was wrong? I was asked on Sunday where my foreskin has gone? It almost ended up in a fight before I had to be separated. I was never going to fight but I made sure I told the idiots that wasnt acceptable. Was also told by 50 plus year olds that I should "eff off back to Bradford." They thought I didn't hear it- when I confronted them, they were actually scared. Told them to grow up when they said it was "banter." Despicable buffoons exist on both sides (I condemn any idiotic behaviour by so called pak fans) and I would be happy if these kinds of morons were barred from cricket matches. Let me tell you something Sarkar; none of these bigots are real fans not indicative of either country. They tarnish the rep of their countries by going just to cause trouble. Nationalism is fun, but I prefer humanity after what I've been through over the last month. When my mum passed away, people of different faiths (Hindu, Sikh, Muslim) came to her funeral. I treat people as they expect to be treated but won't accept bigotry.

[hassan_113]

It's still just a sport. Your argument may hold water for a war but in sport counts for zilch.

Exactly! Wait till you have a real life event that affects you personally. Then you will realise its only a game. Plus politicians are a joke from all countries- playing with people's feelings. Is the common man all over the world a "friend" or "enemy" based on whether their country is "friendly" according to your politicians? I think not. Politicians like people to be sad and for them to be in control.

[Captain of Bhangra]

Another article on the matter: http://m.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/56543/tiranga-or-the-union-jack-

Does the British Asian have a choice as to whom he wishes to support? It was 9.30 pm in Edgbaston and the presentation had just ended after a thrilling Champions Trophy final. The Indians had completed their victory lap and were gradually making it back to the confines of the dressing room. Outside, however, the party was just about to begin. As I walked out of the media gate, E3, to walk to the car park and get going on the drive to Oxford, I was confronted by a sea of blue. It was simply an Indian takeover of Edgbaston. There was a human chain with close to a 1000 people and each of them was singing 'Hum Honge Kaamyaab'. In front of the main entrance to the stadium there were hundreds of Indian fans dancing to the tune of 'Chak De India'. Men and women who didn't even know each other were hugging each other in sheer delight. As I managed to navigate my way to the car park, I could not but help think back to Mohali and the India Pakistan semi-final in the 2011 World Cup. Birmingham and Mohali have very similar roundabouts and intersections and just like in Mohali in March 2011, at Edgbaston last Sunday 23 June 2013, every roundabout had been taken over by jubilant Indian fans dancing to the tune of drums and other music. Interestingly, this wasn't the first time that such a thing has happened. I remember seeing similar crowd passion at the home of English cricket, Lord's, in 2009. India was playing England in the second edition of the World T20 on 14 June 2009. Lord's was awash in a sea of light blue. It did not stop there. Just as Paul Collingwood's side came out for a pre-match warm-up at the Nursery Ground just behind the media centre, they were booed and jeered by a section of the crowd. England, the home team, was booed at the home of English cricket. The home advantage had been surrendered and the significance of the act was not lost on the English captain, who mentioned at the post-match conference that his side was hurt at such crowd behaviour. The very same crowd reaction was repeated at Edgbaston last Sunday. As the names of the two sides were announced in the loudspeaker, M S Dhoni's name evoked the loudest cheer and Alastair Cook's a series of boos. The Indian takeover of Edgbaston has once again brought the question of fan ethics to the fore, inevitably bringing to mind Norman Tebbit's 'cricket test' of two decades ago. (Tebbit, a Conservative British politician, had advocated this test.) The question: who do British Asians support in cricket? And if they support India in a match against England, do they have the right to identify themselves as British citizens? Also, if they support India, is it an act of betrayal? British Asian support for India clearly rankles with many and is central to debates on cricket following in England. For this lot, British Asian support for India is unequivocally an act of 'betrayal', and they see these Asian communities as 'the enemy within'. But British Asians I interviewed at Edgbaston consider this outcome a logical fallout of the discrimination they have been subjected to for years. "We have hardly been included in the mainstream of society on occasions. Such marginalisation will inevitably lead to discontent. The cricket field is the best place to manifest it," was the common sentiment. Many find it unnatural that they will either have to be 'British' or 'Asian' when it comes to watching cricket and that notions of 'dual ethnicity' or 'cultural hybridity' are lost on the upper and middle-class English who continue to cling to quaint notions of Englishness. Most of these British Asians support England when it comes to football. "India is no good at football and we will surely support England. But when it comes to cricket, we know the Indians can provide answers to our suffering, the discrimination we have been subjected to for years. It is only natural we will support India." These reactions draw attention to problems rooted in the multicultural demographics of the UK. Had these 'immigrants' been integrated with the mainstream of British society, who they support in these games would have become a non-issue. But that is not how things stand, and the sense of being discriminated is real among large sections of immigrant Asians. This point of view was borne out by the group of Indian supporters signing 'Chak De India' at Edgbaston: "We are aware that we are in this country to work and earn a living. In an age of globalisation, our skill sets have allowed us to do so. The upper-class English have done us no favour by giving us jobs. Rather, we are plying our trade here because the locals are lacking in these skills. So, we'll always behave like migrants who continue to have their roots elsewhere and will support the country of our ancestors." Interestingly enough I had thought the situation had changed for the better during the 2012 London Olympics. It was fascinating to watch white Britishers cheer for Mo Farah, a Somali refugee, as he went on to achieve the incredible double of winning the 5000 and 10,000 meters at the London Games. But the post Edgbaston discussion has once again brought to the fore the questions, "Will England ever become truly multicultural? Will it ever happen that a father continues to support India while the son, born and raised in an England that is open and truly multicultural, backs his home nation?" For the moment such a scenario looks a distant dream. In 2014 at least (when the Indians play a full series in England next), the Indians are assured of huge support wherever they play. So much so that England will have considerably less support at most venues. Does this support really matter to the players? Indeed it does. Ishant Sharma has openly thanked the crowd for standing by him when he bowled that fascinating 18th over in the final against England. Most other players feel the same and some have even suggested that it helped a great deal at crucial moments in the final. As we think back to the Champions Trophy and what impact it will have on the future of Indian cricket, the contentious issue of crowd support will continue to be at the centre of intense media scrutiny. This is because patterns of crowd behaviour answer a lot of crucial questions on issues of identity, multiculturalism and pluralism in Britain. While these issues appear far removed from the sport itself, passionate British Asian support for India has ensured that they are at the core of public discourse and will continue to be so going forward.

[hassan_113]

I notice people above can't respond to my posts :-) Just because England haven't ever win anything doesn't mean they should be so bitter.

[cowboysfan]

i call bullshit on this perceived lack of integration,if black people can successfully integate into the british soceity then so can the asians.

[King Tendulkar]

Indians seem to have integrated nicely. Went to a sporting event, got drunk, chanted stupid songs, booed the opps national anthem, abused own players and oppos. Shouted out stupid things and thought they were funny. Only difference is the indians went and saw their team win. steortypical brit culture. Perfect integration

[The Outsider]

Assimilation my ar. Both of them rose to the top by being more redneck than the average redneck in the South. :hysterical: Its like saying a tiger assimilated into a herd of cows, except that it does not roar anymore but moos and it grazes the field all day and eats grass. Jindal and Haley are not proof's of assimilation or acceptance. If anything, it proves that the only way for immigrants to rise to to the top is to completely run away from their immigrant roots and act, look and feel local.

I really doubt that they can put up a show for so many years in public spotlight. I am inclined to believe that those are their true views rather than a vote gathering exercise. And yeah, those views do find resonance with their electorate, but I really doubt they espouse them to get votes.

[Sooda]

Indians seem to have integrated nicely. Went to a sporting event, got drunk, chanted stupid songs, booed the opps national anthem, abused own players and oppos. Shouted out stupid things and thought they were funny. Only difference is the indians went and saw their team win. steortypical brit culture. Perfect integration

Hahah!! This is it, whenever the question gets asked about Britishness and how British I am I ask myself- what exactly does that mean? Going out and getting pissed on a Saturday night?? because that is pretty much central to British culture. A glib and shallow statement maybe, but I do not think it is inaccurate.

[Sooda]

Another article on the matter: http://m.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/56543/tiranga-or-the-union-jack-

British Asian support for India clearly rankles with many and is central to debates on cricket following in England. For this lot, British Asian support for India is unequivocally an act of 'betrayal', and they see these Asian communities as 'the enemy within'. I dont agree with that really... ffrankly the non ethnic Brits dont care that much. Cricket is not a mainstream enough sport for this issue to rankle to that extent. If India had a world class football team then it may be a different matter entirely. I do get asked about it but have never been seriously accused of Betrayal for supporting India- even if that would be a valid charge - far far far more so than it being levelled against Bopara. In fact one colleague agreed that I should support India and said he would do so in the same situation... definitely an exception

[Muloghonto]

Hahah!! This is it, whenever the question gets asked about Britishness and how British I am I ask myself- what exactly does that mean? Going out and getting pissed on a Saturday night?? because that is pretty much central to British culture. A glib and shallow statement maybe, but I do not think it is inaccurate.

Tell these a-holes that forget about your britishness, how Indian are these guys ? Their 'national dish' is Chiken Tikka masala- which is 'change 1-2 ingredients of a standard Indian dish and claim it as your own'. Its okay, since our food is delicious enough to be poached by others. Nobody is poaching kidney pies and haggis from them. Their wealth is based on financial prowess of London, which is possible because some Indian dude invented the decimal system. Otherwise the stupid way the Euros did their arithmetic, we'd be sitting here till 2050 to generate basic unemployment data. So next time, ask them how Indian they feel if they ask you how british do you feel.

[special K]

It's no different to KP or Jonathan Trott playing for England. English ancestry just born in a different country.

[Muloghonto]

It's no different to KP or Jonathan Trott playing for England. English ancestry just born in a different country.

There is no such thing as English ancestry. English are as mongrel as they come. They are as foreign as they come- just because they speak English as a first language does not make them English culturally or nationally. English cricket is too broke to afford to develop players of quality of their own to make a playing XI. They rely on BCCI charity to exist and poach players from nations with weaker economies.

[special K]

There is no such thing as English ancestry. English are as mongrel as they come. They are as foreign as they come- just because they speak English as a first language does not make them English culturally or nationally. English cricket is too broke to afford to develop players of quality of their own to make a playing XI. They rely on BCCI charity to exist and poach players from nations with weaker economies.

The last generation of their family was from England. They're English. Also Graeme Smith is English. Smith is as English a name as you can get. SA poached him from us and if he'd had been playing for us we'd dominate cricket for years. SA are only the best test nation because of his captaincy.

[FischerTal]

The last generation of their family was from England. They're English. Also Graeme Smith is English. Smith is as English a name as you can get. SA poached him from us and if he'd had been playing for us we'd dominate cricket for years. SA are only the best test nation because of his captaincy.

:hysterical::hysterical: joke of the century

[Muloghonto]

The last generation of their family was from England. They're English.

Their parent used to be English. Now the parents are Saffies, the kids grew up as Saffies and are therefore Saffies.

Also Graeme Smith is English. Smith is as English a name as you can get. SA poached him from us and if he'd had been playing for us we'd dominate cricket for years. SA are only the best test nation because of his captaincy.

Dont care if his name is English or not. Smith is not English, he is a Saffie because he is born and brought up as a Saffie. SA didnt poach him from you because he was not yours to begin with. His forefather's immigration ensured that.There is no such thing as an English name either, as the root to every single English name boils down to Celtic or Germanic roots. On that note, Smith is not an English name, it is German, originally being Schmidt before getting Anglicized.