CLT20: Visas issued for Pakistan's Faisalabad Wolves [updated 13/09]

[JaFanatic]

how is the scoreline from indias last test tour of australia relevant to your argument :idunno:

It is the scoreline of the last Border-Gavaskar trophy in India this year BTW, when is your PSL going to start actually ? :phehehe:

[div]

why does this only apply to the cricket team though ' date=' rahat ali , ali zafar , atif aslam , the blind cricket team etc etc are not subjected to such sentiments , i wonder why .[/quote'] I think these guys should respect Jinnah.

[cricketrulez]

why does this only apply to the cricket team though ' date=' rahat ali , ali zafar , atif aslam , the blind cricket team etc etc are not subjected to such sentiments , i wonder why .[/quote'] I agree with this. the solution is not to let the cricket team in. the solution is cut the other one off.

[G_B_]

How can there be consistency in decisions like these when there is no consistency in bilateral relations ? We are dealing with a country of madmen which has talks one day and then a few days later has soldiers or terrorists from their territory attacking Indian posts and killing Indian soldiers. A country which has terror groups in their soil which sends terrorists to India, kills our countrymen ? How can we engage with them as though everything is fine and continue with cricket tours, bus tours when people from their country are engaging in a war with us ? What is Pak government doing about these terror cells and the list of terrorists and people wanted by India ? Pretty much nothing. Clean up the mess first. Cricket, Bollywood and other miscellaneous stuff comes much later.

So what is your point? I am saying dont play them at all for a long period to come. However, we have played them in late 2012 which sort of makes us denying visas to them right now look stupid to be honest. Make a stance and stick to it. As things stand India and the BCCI cant seem to make up their mind. If you believe Pakistan cannot be trusted dont play them at all. At present India is sending mixed signals.

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

So what is your point? I am saying dont play them at all for a long period to come. However, we have played them in late 2012 which sort of makes us denying visas to them right now look stupid to be honest. Make a stance and stick to it. As things stand India and the BCCI cant seem to make up their mind. If you believe Pakistan cannot be trusted dont play them at all. At present India is sending mixed signals.

The LOC killings happened after that and PM refused to even meet Sharif

[G_B_]

To further add to that, as i have said before. Change the name of the Champions league to the big 4 league and have 4 teams out of england sa India and aus. It will make for a stronger tournament and will avoid this persistent visa issue. As things stand NZ and SL sides have rarely (read never) reached the semis anyways. The Windies sides will be the only loss in all this. But TnT basically have so many of their players poached that they probably field a weak side anyways. Play this tournament over 10 days (start friday ending next Sunday) when all 4 of the countries involved are free. Cause this thing is going to keep happening every alternate year. The champions league is not

[surajmal]

Apparently, all teams are paid half a million USD just for participation. Makes sense why Pakis are in depression.

[kubrickian]

So what is your point? I am saying dont play them at all for a long period to come. However, we have played them in late 2012 which sort of makes us denying visas to them right now look stupid to be honest. Make a stance and stick to it. As things stand India and the BCCI cant seem to make up their mind. If you believe Pakistan cannot be trusted dont play them at all. At present India is sending mixed signals.

The situation hasnt been the same since December. There have been several attacks on our soldiers at LOC and many of them have died. No diplomatic process can continue when there are cease fire violations like these. The way the government deals with external affairs has to be dynamic. We cant say we cant have cricket tours for next 10 years because we dont know what will happen in 5 years time. The government is supposed to be talking to them, has to work on improving people to people relations and build trust. Cricket tours or bus tours are part of that and hence they allowed their team in the past.

[G_B_]

The LOC killings happened after that and PM refused to even meet Sharif

and its the first time they have done it? They have been doing that since the 90s. How exactly is this something new? As things stand this is what happens. ---> peace meetings at government level ---> peace agreed upon / thaw in cold relations ----> cricket played ----> LOC tensions rise again / terror attack ----> cricket stopped. This has basically been the mantra for the past 22 years which keeps repeating itself in a loop. How about we stop playing them for the next 20 years outside ICC tournaments. A long period of time. If tensions keep rising and falling there is no cricket. If there is a period of sustained peace (4-5 years) then we play cricket. Instead what you have is we are playing them one instance and denying them another instance. There was no need for the 2012 tour. It sent misleading signals that everything was ok.

[G_B_]

The situation hasnt been the same since December. There have been several attacks on our soldiers at LOC and many of them have died. No diplomatic process can continue when there are cease fire violations like these. The way the government deals with external affairs has to be dynamic. We cant say we cant have cricket tours for next 10 years because we dont know what will happen in 5 years time. The government is supposed to be talking to them, has to work on improving people to people relations and build trust. Cricket tours or bus tours are part of that and hence they allowed their team in the past.

I fundamentally disagree with that. You make a stance and you stick to that stance. At present India's stance is akin to switching a light on and off. We have been building trust for a long time now. Its time to take a more permanent course of action. As things stand India will play Pak a lot in ICC tournaments. So fans should be catered for.

[b555]

As things stand India will play Pak a lot in ICC tournaments. So fans should be catered for.

But they arent as frequent as one would like them to be.

[G_B_]

But they arent as frequent as one would like them to be.

tough. There are 3 global ICC tournaments and the odds are high we will play pakistan in 2 of them. ICC would be stupid not to cash in. You make a stand then you make a stand. As things stand India is making some sort of half stand.

[kubrickian]

I fundamentally disagree with that. You make a stance and you stick to that stance. At present India's stance is akin to switching a light on and off. We have been building trust for a long time now. Its time to take a more permanent course of action. As things stand India will play Pak a lot in ICC tournaments. So fans should be catered for.

Permanent course of action ? Care to explain what you exactly mean by that ? Complete breakdown of talks for a prolonged time is not in our best interests (or even for Pakistan) because ultimately we need co-operation with Pak elements who are interested in what we want them to do, which is handing over the terrorists and dismantling the terror network which poses a threat to us. If we antagonize those people who are favorable to us in Pak, it would be beneficial to our enemies in Pakistan and strengthen them. But I think the government has to send a message that peace talks and diplomatic process cant continue if Pak cant set its house in order. Besides, you are also discounting USA's pressure in getting India and Pak to talk because both these countries have nuclear weapons and continued tension could escalate into a nuclear war.

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

and its the first time they have done it? They have been doing that since the 90s. How exactly is this something new? As things stand this is what happens. ---> peace meetings at government level ---> peace agreed upon / thaw in cold relations ----> cricket played ----> LOC tensions rise again / terror attack ----> cricket stopped. This has basically been the mantra for the past 22 years which keeps repeating itself in a loop. How about we stop playing them for the next 20 years outside ICC tournaments. A long period of time. If tensions keep rising and falling there is no cricket. If there is a period of sustained peace (4-5 years) then we play cricket. Instead what you have is we are playing them one instance and denying them another instance. There was no need for the 2012 tour. It sent misleading signals that everything was ok.

we always try to improve relationships when there are no terror activities. So 4 years after 2008, we did invite them, however then the LOC killings followed. I am with you that we should stop playing them in bilateral series till they have democracy for 20 years

[G_B_]

Permanent course of action ? Care to explain what you exactly mean by that ? Complete breakdown of talks for a prolonged time is not in our best interests (or even for Pakistan) because ultimately we need co-operation with Pak elements who are interested in what we want them to do, which is handing over the terrorists and dismantling the terror network which poses a threat to us. If we antagonize those people who are favorable to us in Pak, it would be beneficial to our enemies in Pakistan and strengthen them. But I think the government has to send a message that peace talks and diplomatic process cant continue if Pak cant set its house in order. Besides, you are also discounting USA's pressure in getting India and Pak to talk because both these countries have nuclear weapons and continued tension could escalate into a nuclear war.

The fundamental problem is that we talk with the civilian gov, while the army controls the strings. Those talks are meaningless. We are not antagonising at all by refusing to play. Now if we invade them then us thats antagonisation. You have a situation whereby some grade 2 film stars from pakistan find work and visa in bollywood yet cricketers are being shut out. How exactly is that conveying your message? By all means keep a hot line open to talk if things go nuclear. But disengage. Have a consistent stance. Stop all economic trade, stop all visas regardless of profession. That is a consistent stance. Not this current half and half appraoch

[cricketrulez]

The fundamental problem is that we talk with the civilian gov, while the army controls the strings. Those talks are meaningless. We are not antagonising at all by refusing to play. Now if we invade them then us thats antagonisation. You have a situation whereby some grade 2 film stars from pakistan find work and visa in bollywood yet cricketers are being shut out. How exactly is that conveying your message? By all means keep a hot line open to talk if things go nuclear. But disengage. Have a consistent stance. Stop all economic trade, stop all visas regardless of profession. That is a consistent stance. Not this current half and half appraoch

You will never get that from Dr Mumble Mumble Silence and the Italian waitress.

[Cricketics]

Thumbs down to BCCI and Indian Government for not allowing them. How can you host a world tournament and not let players from certain countries, take part in it? These players would be under security. What are we going to earn by not allowing them to participate? Did we learn anything special, or did it benefit to us in anyway when they were banned from IPL in the past? You can call Rameez Raja, various Pakistani stars, singers to India and let them sing, do their stuff, but not let these cricketers play in India? Wake Up, Governement. by doing these crappy things, they think they will impress Indian janta, since most of the people in India are anyway Anti-Pakistanis and would be proud of this move by Government. They shouldn't worry about Janta much here, they should use there brain and allow them the visas. People keep bring Mumbai attacks. Yes, we all have sympathy for that, but did these players commit any cricme before. and did banning them from entering our country during previous IPL season did our relation any good with Pakistan? Relationship with Pakistan will never improve. Just be sane and grant them the Visas.

[GrandMasterSaxy]

Chill....I still feel that the Pakistani players would arrive and will play the matches.

Thumbs down to BCCI and Indian Government for not allowing them. How can you host a world tournament and not let players from certain countries, take part in it? These players would be under security. What are we going to earn by not allowing them to participate? Did we learn anything special, or did it benefit to us in anyway when they were banned from IPL in the past? You can call Rameez Raja, various Pakistani stars, singers to India and let them sing, do their stuff, but not let these cricketers play in India? Wake Up, Governement. By doing these crappy things, they thing they will impress Indian janta, since most of the people in India are anyway Anti-Pakistanis and would be proud of this move by Government. They shouldn't worry about Janta much here, they should use there brain and allow them the visas. People keep bring Mumbai attacks. Yes, we all have sympathy for that, but did these players commit any cricme before. and did banning them from entering our country during previous IPL season did our relation any good with Pakistan? Relationship with Pakistan will never improve. Just be sane and grant them the Visas.

[randomGuy]

You guys said the same thing before CT 2013 about the IPL. Look what happened :winky: PS: I wouldn't care much about CL but would definitely want every qualifying team to participate in it. If we're hosting an international tournament, we should be dignified in allowing all qualified participants.

Allow them here and play with them at all ICC events such as upcoming test championships, world cups etc I'd agree. Don't allow them for IPL and cl, I'd encourage showing them the laddu of invitation and not granting visa, or sometimes allowing 1 team in qualifying stage but no direct entry so that they keep crying but are kept interested:cantstop:. Because IPL and cl are owned by bcci. On the other hand, bcci would do well to invite Bangladeshi team, the tournament will have more interest from150million people of BD.

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

Thumbs down to BCCI and Indian Government for not allowing them. How can you host a world tournament and not let players from certain countries, take part in it? These players would be under security. What are we going to earn by not allowing them to participate? Did we learn anything special, or did it benefit to us in anyway when they were banned from IPL in the past? You can call Rameez Raja, various Pakistani stars, singers to India and let them sing, do their stuff, but not let these cricketers play in India? Wake Up, Governement. by doing these crappy things, they think they will impress Indian janta, since most of the people in India are anyway Anti-Pakistanis and would be proud of this move by Government. They shouldn't worry about Janta much here, they should use there brain and allow them the visas. People keep bring Mumbai attacks. Yes, we all have sympathy for that, but did these players commit any cricme before. and did banning them from entering our country during previous IPL season did our relation any good with Pakistan? Relationship with Pakistan will never improve. Just be sane and grant them the Visas.

God Forbid, but the day you will lose somebody in Mumbai attacks or at the LOC, I will then like you to invite the Pakistanis in your home. and to your point on why against cricketers. because it is played in the open with a lot of media attention. you would not know when a musician or an actor performed and went back. neither will terrorists gain anything by attacking an individual