The issue with Ishant

[CG]

What does Joe Dawes do if not rectify things like this?

What can that fat slob do?U think a guy who has not played a test for australia will be taken seriously.We need guys who have some reputation with experience.

[saneindian]

When did you last meet your coach, Ishant Sharma? ............ ................... This newspaper has reliably learnt that Ishant hasn’t visited his coach in ages. In fact, he has opened his own cricket academy in partnership with an old Delhi Ranji teammate in upscale Delhi. “Now, Ishant only practises at his academy. Apparently, Ishant’s coach ‘failed’ to help one of his cousins get into a Delhi age-group side,” a veteran DDCA administrator said.

http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report-when-did-you-last-meet-your-coach-ishant-sharma-1906340 Big egos there from Ishu. Shed that ego Ishant and go back to Shravan.

[Sidhoni]

^:facepalm:

[Clarke]

Some cultures believed a cat has 9 lives. Sharmas have even more in the Indian cricket team.

[jalebi_bhai]

http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report-when-did-you-last-meet-your-coach-ishant-sharma-1906340 Big egos there from Ishu. Shed that ego Ishant and go back to Shravan.

Horrible by Ishant if true.......

[G_B_]

oh come on Now i think ishant is a **** bowler and should be dropped but this is just disgusting that the media has turned on him. I have seen a dozen photocopied images on twitter with Ishant supposedly saying all sorts of things. It was an ODI with no real relevance. get over it.

[G_B_]

Maybe the real question we need to be asking if WTF is Joe Dawes our bowling coach doing? Even Bhuvi has sucked from his usual standard. Just cause he is Ishant's original coach does not mean he has the means to improve him. The fact is Ishant played the champions league and was bowling well there. (or as well as he could). So he has had coaching at the Deccan franchise and even the india side. People in Indian soceity need to get beyond this "coaching" dependence. Its something i have come across with cousins in mumbai based on the educational curriculum. Kids in India are told what to do. In the west you have to figure things out for yourself. Thats how the courses are designed and they are not dependent on rote learning. I have personally seen friends of my cousin in mumbai by hearting a software program. This was not even an algorithm. I am thinking to myself wtf. You need logic and not memory. If Ishant sharma cannot figure out for himself what the problem is maybe Ishant Sharma is too dumb to play cricket. He has been coached enough by various coaches in ranji, IPL and various India bowling coaches. Coaching IMO is not the problem.

[saneindian]

In international sport dependence on coaching has got nothing to with which society you are from. Every top tennis player has a personal coach. Andre Aggassi was transformed under Brad Gilbert, Ivan Lendl has made Andy Murray help win Wimbledon. James Anderson did not figure out himself what he needed to do to become successful. Took a Troy Cooley to teach him the tricks of the trade. Ditto for Peter Siddle who was transformed under Mcdermott. When you know nothing's working for you, you have to start from scratch. And no better way to do that than by revisiting your early mentor first up. its just one step on a journey of redemption. Did Ashwin not say how his childhood coach helped him correct just a minor glitch of landing foot to help him get back to his rhythm? Sometimes its those little things, may or may not work, but always worth trying. As for the comparisons of how he bowled at CLT20, well does anyone remember the 22 run over he bowled in a match in that tournament? Other than the SRH fans, no one cares because you are not under scrutiny. Here he's being thrashed by all and sundry.

[saneindian]

Also in England you have an entourage of 15+ support staff including but not limited to- a head coach, a batting coach, a bowling coach, a spin coach, a fielding coach and at times even a keeping coach. When they do that its called a professional set up. So much for lack of coaching :--D

[G_B_]

In international sport dependence on coaching has got nothing to with which society you are from. Every top tennis player has a personal coach. Andre Aggassi was transformed under Brad Gilbert, Ivan Lendl has made Andy Murray help win Wimbledon. James Anderson did not figure out himself what he needed to do to become successful. Took a Troy Cooley to teach him the tricks of the trade. Ditto for Peter Siddle who was transformed under Mcdermott. When you know nothing's working for you, you have to start from scratch. And no better way to do that than by revisiting your early mentor first up. its just one step on a journey of redemption. Did Ashwin not say how his childhood coach helped him correct just a minor glitch of landing foot to help him get back to his rhythm? Sometimes its those little things, may or may not work, but always worth trying. As for the comparisons of how he bowled at CLT20, well does anyone remember the 22 run over he bowled in a match in that tournament? Other than the SRH fans, no one cares because you are not under scrutiny. Here he's being thrashed by all and sundry.

and hows that working out for Ashwin now? Somebody like Sachin never really had a batting coach. Yes he went to Achrekar etc for some tips but by his mid 20s he relied on observations from Sunny (his cricketing mentor) Ramakant Achrekar and Kambli (his best friend). Asking people for input and looking for advise is one thing. Relying out and out on what a coach says is another. Tennis is an individual sport. There will obviously be certain sports were coaches do make an impact. Look at Formula 1. Drivers dont really have coaches. They have a team and make the calls on feedback from the team and give the team feedback on the performance of the car. Look at football. Very rarely do you see a footballer go back to his childhood coach.

[G_B_]

Also in England you have an entourage of 15+ support staff including but not limited to- a head coach' date=' a batting coach, a bowling coach, a spin coach, a fielding coach and at times even a keeping coach. When they do that its called a professional set up. So much for lack of coaching :--D[/quote'] that still works out to 1 bowling coach for the bowlers. The rest of the support staff range from fitness etc to general team manager to nutritionist. and even in england. You are free to ask. they will give you some inputs but its basically down to you to sort it out. Jimmy Anderson mentions in his biography that for all the coaching it was his own analysis which benefited him the most.

[G_B_]

and the general point is, this guy has been in international cricket for how long? I can totally understand the reliance on the coach when your under 19 and maybe the first 3-4 years of ranji cricket. Ishant has been playing professional cricket for close to 7 years now. He has played all around the world and knows the conditions. Its a bit like being an undergraduate and doing a masters. Some degree of independence is expected with the later.

[saneindian]

You are over emphasising reiance on coach. Going back to a coach in troubled times isn't relying on a coach. Explianed earlier, its perhaps step one of a long drawn process. And that Sachin example. Doesn't that contradict your own generalization about Indians 'relying on the coaches'. There ar emnay other similar example in Indian cricket itself. Ashwin is doing just ok given tht there has been no help at all for spinners. Trying too many variations. Needs to go back to those basics (which his coach would have taught him), stick to your stock ball even in ODIs not just test matches.

[G_B_]

You are over emphasising reiance on coach. Going back to a coach in troubled times isn't relying on a coach. Explianed earlier, its perhaps step one of a long drawn process. And that Sachin example. Doesn't that contradict your own generalization about Indians 'relying on the coaches'. There ar emnay other similar example in Indian cricket itself. Ashwin is doing just ok given tht there has been no help at all for spinners. Trying too many variations. Needs to go back to those basics (which his coach would have taught him), stick to your stock ball even in ODIs not just test matches.

sachin is a rarity. The exception to the rule. Cant think of many examples. Yes there maybe a handful , but in a country such as india its not big enough. The real question is how many troubled times does ishant have? ITs not as if he was great at one point and then simply became ****. He basically had one good tour of Aus and one good tour of WI. So i am guessing in these past 7 years he has gone back to his coach many times. Its clearly not helping. Ashwin example also, from what i gather he was an opening batsman and then changed to becoming a spinner when he actually changed coaches quite late into his cricketing career (early teens) due to Siva (the commentator?) not sure. Thats something he worked out for himself at the suggestion of others.

[saneindian]

sachin is a rarity. The exception to the rule. Cant think of many examples. Yes there maybe a handful , but in a country such as india its not big enough. The real question is how many troubled times does ishant have? ITs not as if he was great at one point and then simply became ****. He basically had one good tour of Aus and one good tour of WI. So i am guessing in these past 7 years he has gone back to his coach many times. Its clearly not helping. Ashwin example also, from what i gather he was an opening batsman and then changed to becoming a spinner when he actually changed coaches quite late into his cricketing career (early teens) due to Siva (the commentator?) not sure. Thats something he worked out for himself at the suggestion of others.

Which is the point. If you open that link which I had posted, it seems he has not been to his coach in years! Not saying it will set him straight, but as some sort of the last option. 'Tried everything in these years, why not do this as well'. As for the Ashwin story, since 2005 his coach has been Sunil SUbramaniam at the TNCA Spin Academy in Cehnnai. He suggested him to focus on off spin bowling. Details here http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report-r-ashwin-has-it-all-in-his-mind-coach-1609671

[G_B_]

Which is the point. If you open that link which I had posted, it seems he has not been to his coach in years! Not saying it will set him straight, but as some sort of the last option. 'Tried everything in these years, why not do this as well'. As for the Ashwin story, since 2005 his coach has been Sunil SUbramaniam at the TNCA Spin Academy in Cehnnai. He suggested him to focus on off spin bowling. Details here http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report-r-ashwin-has-it-all-in-his-mind-coach-1609671

all the DNA article says is that he has not visited his coach in ages. A vague term. From what i gather Ishant has only recently opened his new academy. Which tells me there must have been plenty of times he went back to his coach, only for him to have another **** performance over the course of the past 7 years. The fact is there was a time when he was not in the Indian odi team and was only a test regular. It still did not work out for him in that format.

[rkt.india]

The real question is how many troubled times does ishant have? ITs not as if he was great at one point and then simply became ****. He basically had one good tour of Aus and one good tour of WI. So i am guessing in these past 7 years he has gone back to his coach many times. Its clearly not helping. .

He did after he was not selected for WC 2011 team and was benefited, bowled well in IPL following that and then in WI tour. His bowling action was again back to good shape, only issue was his seam position was still not that great and that was the reason he could not get much help in England conditions.

[Crookbond]

Another cricketer who went back to his coach/mentor was Shane Warne (Terry Jenner). There are numerous such examples actually.

[Sooda]

How much time an Indian bowling coach gets to work on these guys' date=' not much because they are constantly traveling or playing cricket. They barely get one practice session before the match and that is not good enough to change a bowler.[/quote'] Between matches? In the days prior to the series beginning after the team had met up, or the days after ODIs 1 and 2 for instance... there is a lot of time! If Dawes and/or Ishant were interested

[rkt.india]

Between matches? In the days prior to the series beginning after the team had met up' date=' or the days after ODIs 1 and 2 for instance... there is a lot of time! If Dawes and/or Ishant were interested[/quote'] You are not wrong and they must be doing things as they certainly have, but it doesn't work like this. You cannot change things overnight and if you try to do it can get worse like in case of Ishant.