velu Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Quirk? trait? nature of test cricket? that's common to pretty much almost all the batters who ever played the sport - so he didn't do THE one thing regularly enough to your liking - that you wanted him to do. That's just great :haha: And he did all the other things that nobody could do - go figure :hatsoff: but atleast fid one or two macth winning/saving knocks by goddy.. i can find more such knocks from gambo than goddy :cantstop:
Stuge Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 but sachin didnt face indian bowlers :hysterical::hysterical:
zen Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 If a player has played for decades and has a strong following, it should not be difficult to recall a few stories w/o relying on statsguru
zen Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Indeed that's a weakness of the fan the follower his faculties not the Achilles of the sportsperson :hysterical: the point was - great performances are a part of the folklore, thus hard to forget (esp. on sports forums) :winky: For e.g. how many can forget Lax's 281 vs.Aus or Sehwag's 300 vs. Pak, Srinath's 6 wkts vs. SA, Kumble 10 wkts vs Pak, Kapil 5-er vs. Aus, Gavaskar vs. WI, etc.
zen Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 And one random or two or heck make it even 10 defining moments in a particular format (That isn't even S.Waughs territory I don't think) over 600 matches and 25 yrs decides greatness but kicking ***** of the rest of the playing cricketing world in 590 of them doesn't count - excellent :winky: Definitely counts towards the membership to one of the greatest players club .... But like you said, even for Waugh it "could" be difficult to have 10 defining moments, which shows that there needs to be something more to be termed as the greatest amongst the greatest. That's preciously the reason, many would be tempted to pick Waugh over Tendulkar (who has played 30 odd more tests then the next guy on the list) or vice versa w/o regrets :winky:
Detonator Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Kallis had a better average, runs per innings and didnt play much on pattas. :creep:
zen Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 And yet sucked in comparison to Tendulkar in minus say 6 defining moments now and sucked he did in comparison - over 20 yrs (for Waugh) minus 6 days across formats hmmm funny world with its temptation :haha: No player sucks, esp. those who played close to 100 tests. Who knows if likes of Waugh had played for Ind, we would have done relatively better in Aus, NZ, Eng, SA and WI. We might have benefited from Waugh's grit. Probably, it is the fans that need to develop a better understanding of cricket and rise about the unnecessary bias they have developed over the years .... To use your own statement - "Indeed that's a weakness of the fan the follower his faculties not the Achilles of the sportsperson" :winky:
zen Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Guilty as charged as are a million on here :nice: yours truly included :nice:
Number Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 It's possible.Sachin was technically excellent which allowed him to negotiate tough attacks but second innings is more of a mental thing Steve Waugh's second innings avg is 25. So I should consider him mentally weak ?
Yoda-esque Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Steve Waugh's second innings avg is 25. So I should consider him mentally weak ? No but he wasn't technically as accomplished as Tendulkar either
Number Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Not sure its that low but low enough for his 'reputation' though - no ones supposed to know :secret: Got it wrong yeah.. Its 32 I think. 4th innings avg is 25.
Number Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 No but he wasn't technically as accomplished as Tendulkar either But 2nd innings is the mental thing not the first one. Isn't it?
Yoda-esque Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 But 2nd innings is the mental thing not the first one. Isn't it? Significantly More so yes,especially while chasing
Yoda-esque Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 S.Waugh was a mental midget 'cause he fared terrible in the 4th innings (with an ATG or near ATG bowling attack to rely upon the next test/next series/next year) - had a nice laugh thank you its sunday night good night - one more metric lined up for 'greatness' to sleep on hmmm. Sure- I am glad you could convince yourself
velu Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 S.Waugh was a mental midget 'cause he fared terrible in the 4th innings (with an ATG or near ATG bowling attack to rely upon the next test/next series/next year) - had a nice laugh thank you its sunday night good night - one more metric lined up for 'greatness' to sleep on hmmm. but waugh won wc for aussies :winky:
Yoda-esque Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Been a momentous day today that this metric has been raised - convincing will take a while but m sure will get there as long as I continue to read some of the stuff on here :hysterical: It's Sunday night,Good night
Marut Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 I can name at least 2 2nd innings matchwinning knocks oveseas for Dravid. Can you name one match winning or match saving knock overseas of the "greatest batsman of modern times" against a non-minnow team? I do agree that Dravid's contribution to match winning causes are higher than Sachin, but Dravid is also known for bottling under pressure. He is not a second innings specialist by any means.
rixxuu Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Statistically Kallis Looks better then Tendulkar. Tendulkar looks great because his team was not good enough and were always bad tourists and Tendulkar was the only player who often stood up to the ocassion even then he had a marginally lower test average then kallis.
zen Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 I realized that I haven't commented directly on Sachin vs. Kallis (I actually spoke on my picks from each generation since 1930 HERE). On Sachin vs. Kallis, If I had a choice, I would pick Sachin. I realize that Kallis offers better utility, but I see his bowling more as supportive to the main bowlers. I doubt that many would pick Kallis purely as a bowler. It is the batting that I am more interested in, esp. if you are comparing Kallis with another batsman. My opinion is not based on more runs or 100s or tests played. We have seen enough of the two to take stats out of the equation. In the 90s and parts of early 2000s, you could trust Sachin to go out and take on the best bowler in the opposition. One of the reasons, why Warne rates him highly - esp. after his 155. Sachin is also more entertaining to watch and enjoys more memorable performances against Aus, the best team of his time. Kallis, on the other hand, has been criticized by guys such as Chappell for failing to take the initiative with the bat, esp. in situations where he needed to go after the bowling or upset the bowlers. That has happened for the most part of his career. Additionally, his record in Eng and SL is not that convincing. However, both are world class cricketers. I would be happy to have either of them in my team. Only if I had a choice, I would lean towards Sachin. But if I ended up with Kallis, would I be upset? Ofc No! (Ferrari or Lambo) And that's the good part about picking great cricketers - it is a win-win situation!
Sajid_Rana Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Every neutral fan rates Lara and Kallis above Tendulkar. Good to see even the Indian players are finally swallowing this bitter pill of truth
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