adi B Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 aaron was hostile in hiw 1st spell,bowled continuously over 90mph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 And patto bowls at much much higher pace which is exactly my point If you hit deck hard full you have to be quick hit the deck doesnt always mean bowl short. I have done it thats why I am saying. Yes, with tighter grip, you will bowl quicker than lose grip. With tight grip, you have more force behind the ball even when bowling good lengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineleg Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 aaron was hostile in hiw 1st spell' date='bowled continuously over 90mph[/quote'] Umesh Yadav is rusty, hope he can also find form to pair with Aaron (if he doesnt breakdown with injury) for ENGLAND tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 hit the deck doesnt always mean bowl short. I have done it thats why I am saying. Yes' date=' with tighter grip, you will bowl quicker than lose grip. With tight grip, you have more force behind the ball even when bowling good lengths.[/quote'] Yes exactly So you need to bowl quicker... My entire argument here is philander at his pace of 130 k does not really hit deck hard like people here are misinformed about You either bowl quicker to hit deck hard or get tall like McGrath and even he was not really full length bowler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 And patto bowls at much much higher pace which is exactly my point If you hit deck hard full you have to be quick How would you explain a shorter medium pacer bowling good bouncers ? Craig McMillan used to do it with regularity at 122 k in the subcontinent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 How would you explain a shorter medium pacer bowling good bouncers ? Craig McMillan used to do it with regularity at 122 k in the subcontinent. Please give me current example I only started watching cricket seriously after 1999 and test after 2002 Also I can give you example if you want Shami Ahmed bowls bouncers which are very short and have time for batsman to adjust at same pace Aaron bowls much better bouncer from little fuller cos he is taller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Please give me current example I only started watching cricket seriously after 1999 and test after 2002 Also I can give you example if you want Shami Ahmed bowls bouncers which are very short and have time for batsman to adjust at same pace Aaron bowls much better bouncer from little fuller cos he is taller You are confusing the result that is obtained by hitting the deck hard with the styles of bowling that is either hitting the deck hard or floating it. There are many factors which contribute towards an effective deck hitting delivery. I don't know them all. But some of them are shoulder strength of a bowler, his grip, his action, his pace, his height, whether he is hitting the seam, his bowling style , his intent, amount of underspin imparted on the ball etc. Everything else of the above mentioned factors remaining same , a taller or quicker bowler would obviously have more effective hit the deck balls. But , in the real world , the other factors vary a lot , even for the same bowler from day to day. Our original issue was that Philander , who wants to hit the deck hard on occasions, especially when the ball is not swinging, can be more effective than a similar paced bowler like Sandeep whose only weapon is to float the ball and wanting it to swing. We are not really comparing the relative effectiveness of a Morkel and a Philander bouncer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 You are confusing the result that is obtained by hitting the deck hard with the styles of bowling that is either hitting the deck hard or floating it. There are many factors which contribute towards an effective deck hitting delivery. I don't know them all. But some if them are shoulder strength of a bowler, his grip, his action, his pace, his height, whether he is hitting the seam, his bowling style , his intent, amount of underspin imparted on the ball etc. Everything else of the above mentioned factors remaining same , a taller or quicker bowler would obviously have more effective hit the deck balls. But , in the teal world , the other factors vary a lot , even for the dame bowler from Fay to day. Our original issue was that Philander , who wants to hit the deck hard on occasions, especially when the ball is not swinging, can be more effective than a similar paced bowler like Sandeep whose only weapon is to float the ball and wanting it to swing. We are not really comparing the relative effectiveness of a Morkel and a Philander bouncer. You are not getting simple fact ...all the things you said shoulder,back,intent are reasons they hit deck hard yes...but result is because of strong solders,grip,intent the ball is delivered much quicker and it ground hard There is no escapng why sick if same ball with same mass has more energy that means it had more speed ? Rkt also gampve example of patto son who hits length hard at full and he is pretty quick there is no bowler who hits full length hard at pace of philander it is just impossible iunless you are tall like McGrath,broad,morkel you get the idea right?a Also philander sucks at bouncer who told you he has great bouncer ? He is accurate with it but his main strength it keeping bowl full and move both ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Sorry for typos but I am using ipad and and am in hurry but in short All the things you mentioned result in ball being delivered quicker And 130 k bowler at height of philander or bhuvi cannot hit deck hard from good length Philander seams the ball you are confusing both things he gets lots of life from track cos of his seam position and control while some one like Bhuvan gets swing in air rather than wicket of seam Putting deck hard is what flintoff did using shoulders to smah ball in wicket but at very high pace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 The other factors that I have mentioned are well illustrated by the examples of Aaron and Umesh. They are of similar height and pace. Yet, Aaron has much more lethal bouncers. The shorter and slightly slower Shami bowls better bouncers than Umesh on most occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I6MTW Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Umesh-Bhuvi-Shami-Aaron-Pandey-Mohit should be our seamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 The other factors that I have mentioned are well illustrated by the examples of Aaron and Umesh. They are of similar height and pace. Yet, Aaron has much more lethal bouncers. The shorter and slightly slower Shami bowls better bouncers than Umesh on most occasions. No wrong Aaron is bit taller and action is high arm while umesh is slangy and delivers ball much below from where Aaron does Also umesh too hits deck hard when in rhythm and his bouncers can be deadly but his problem is control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Umesh hit almost all Australian batsmen on helmet when he wa in rhythm Let's not confuse things here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Sorry for typos but I am using ipad and and am in hurry but in short All the things you mentioned result in ball being delivered quicker And 130 k bowler at height of philander or bhuvi cannot hit deck hard from good length Philander seams the ball you are confusing both things he gets lots of life from track cos of his seam position and control while some one like Bhuvan gets swing in air rather than wicket of seam Putting deck hard is what flintoff did using shoulders to smah ball in wicket but at very high pace Have you actually bowled with a cricket ball ? You are just not getting the point about two different bowling styles. It is not about the effectiveness of those styles but the existence of the two styles of pace bowling. Philander is not the most effective deck hitting bowler in the world. I am not claiming that at all. But, he can use that style as a backup variation because h has been taught to do so whereas our medium pacer do not practice or llearn this style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Have you actually bowled with a cricket ball ? You are just not getting the point about two different bowling styles. It is not about the effectiveness of those styles but the existence of the two styles of pace bowling. Philander is not the most effective deck hitting bowler in the world. I am not claiming that at all. But, he can use that style as a backup variation because h has been taught to do so whereas our medium pacer do not practice or llearn this style. No matter which style you bowl with with same speed,same angle,same height the impact of ball at ground will be same For harder impact you need more speed or different angle of contact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Are you trying to say that all pacers of similar pace and height are equally adept and inclined towards hit the deck bowling style ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Are you trying to say that all pacers of similar pace and height are equally adept and inclined towards hit the deck bowling style ? All pacers have different seam positions and different angles ,wrist position,height of arm and many other variables But if you are short and want to hit deck hard at full length you have to be bloody quick Simple put guys like philander do not hit track harder than bowlers at their pace he just lands the ball on seam and perfect length for his pace and that is his genius also great control and subtle moment for seam while bhuvi is not as good because he moves the ball in air rather than track and that is the difference between hem People who hit track hard get lots of life even from dead track and get lot more bounce like pattinaon or my favourite flintoff used to do it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 The same pacer , any pacer, often bowls a sizzling bouncer at 5 or 7 k less pace than his fastest ball which often looks average and has been floated on many occasions . Why does that happen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 hit the deck doesnt always mean bowl short. I have done it thats why I am saying. Yes' date=' with tighter grip, you will bowl quicker than lose grip. With tight grip, you have more force behind the ball even when bowling good lengths.[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 What do you mean ? Btw read what rkt said it explains what I am saying No it does not. I am agreeing to what Rkt is saying. You can have two pitched up balls by the same pacer.. One where he hits the deck hard and has bowled it at 143 k and hits the bat hard. Another which is floated and looks ordinary but released at 149 k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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