Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[the don]

20 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Lol. He is trolling. 145.7 as the fastest ever should give you a clue. Even Bhuvaneshwar has clocked 146 kph and the audacity of this guy. 

Where did i say that 145.7 is the fastest? That was what that 156 kph delivery was shown as on the broadcast and Espn cricinfo. I know that Bumrah clocked 153 in Australia. I think you have trouble comprehending.

[wazza]

It's hard to bowl 150 plus unless you have effortless picture perfect action. 

 

Most Indians don't have good actions. 

You need a slingy side action to be able to launch thunderbolts without much effort. 

Lee's action is the best I have ever seen. Everything is in alignment. Poetry in motion. Everything is in sync. 

[Nikhil_cric]

5 hours ago, Axl100mph said:

160 kph by shoaib vs south africa 4th innings of the 1st test in Lahore 2003, batsman was Boeta dippenaar.

It is the same test in which shoaib injured kirsten.

You can see that delivery in the following video. Consistent 155kph plus bowling here.

https://youtu.be/4VquJ7wflCY

 

The one below is vs nz 2002 Lahore. Pak made 643 and in reply nz got bowled out for 73 with shoaib taking 6/11. Several 155+ plus yorkers here. Fastest ball of the spell was 159 but not in the video. 

https://youtu.be/58qXzYSCUMw

The speeds are impressive but it's not unique. Lee has matched these speeds and at least in the 2015/16 season I'm convinced that Starc was somewhere in that range. Tait in T20's

 

But the scary thing about Akhtar was that he had this ability to produce some extraordinary deliveries that no other human, I think, has produced.  Not consistently in a spell but they usually came out of nowhere.  His short-of-a-length stuff when in rhythm probably only registered as 148 kph as opposed to 158 but they were life-threatening. 

 

He got Joel Garner'esque steep lift but around 8-10 kph quicker. Johnson hit that length at the same pace but the bounce was not as steep.  It's the stuff that felled Ganguly, Lara, Kirsten, etc. 

 

And THAT ball to Shane Watson is the single most lethal delivery ever in the history of cricket. Outrageous ball. A little fuller and I'm convinced Watson would have been killed on the spot. 

 

 

 

 

[wazza]

47 minutes ago, the don said:

Where did i say that 145.7 is the fastest? That was what that 156 kph delivery was shown as on the broadcast and Espn cricinfo. I know that Bumrah clocked 153 in Australia. I think you have trouble comprehending.

It's ok. Leave it. It's probably a speed gun error. Only aus and s.african bowlers can bowl quick and speed guns are never tampered by them. All other countries tamper the speed guns. Pakistan is one exception though. Pak, aus and s.africa. 

 

Everyone else It's usually speed gun error. 

[wazza]

10 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The speeds are impressive but it's not unique. Lee has matched these speeds and at least in the 2015/16 season I'm convinced that Starc was somewhere in that range. Tait in T20's

 

But the scary thing about Akhtar was that he had this ability to produce some extraordinary deliveries that no other human, I think, has produced.  Not consistently in a spell but they usually came out of nowhere.  His short-of-a-length stuff when in rhythm probably only registered as 148 kph as opposed to 158 but they were life-threatening. 

 

He got Joel Garner'esque steep lift but around 8-10 kph quicker. Johnson hit that length at the same pace but the bounce was not as steep.  It's the stuff that felled Ganguly, Lara, Kirsten, etc. 

 

And THAT ball to Shane Watson is the single most lethal delivery ever in the history of cricket. Outrageous ball. A little fuller and I'm convinced Watson would have been killed on the spot. 

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

[MediumPacer]

8 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The speeds are impressive but it's not unique. Lee has matched these speeds and at least in the 2015/16 season I'm convinced that Starc was somewhere in that range. Tait in T20's

 

But the scary thing about Akhtar was that he had this ability to produce some extraordinary deliveries that no other human, I think, has produced.  Not consistently in a spell but they usually came out of nowhere.  His short-of-a-length stuff when in rhythm probably only registered as 148 kph as opposed to 158 but they were life-threatening. 

 

He got Joel Garner'esque steep lift but around 8-10 kph quicker. Johnson hit that length at the same pace but the bounce was not as steep.  It's the stuff that felled Ganguly, Lara, Kirsten, etc. 

 

And THAT ball to Shane Watson is the single most lethal delivery ever in the history of cricket. Outrageous ball. A little fuller and I'm convinced Watson would have been killed on the spot. 

 

 

 

 

That looked like a 160k ball.

[the don]

36 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The speeds are impressive but it's not unique. Lee has matched these speeds and at least in the 2015/16 season I'm convinced that Starc was somewhere in that range. Tait in T20's

 

But the scary thing about Akhtar was that he had this ability to produce some extraordinary deliveries that no other human, I think, has produced.  Not consistently in a spell but they usually came out of nowhere.  His short-of-a-length stuff when in rhythm probably only registered as 148 kph as opposed to 158 but they were life-threatening. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those speeds are indeed unique for test cricket. That spell vs NZ is the fastest spell ever bowled in test cricket. Never seen more 155kph plus deliveries in a single spell im test cricket.

[the don]

40 minutes ago, wazza said:

It's hard to bowl 150 plus unless you have effortless picture perfect action. 

 

Most Indians don't have good actions. 

You need a slingy side action to be able to launch thunderbolts without much effort. 

Lee's action is the best I have ever seen. Everything is in alignment. Poetry in motion. Everything is in sync. 

Picture perfect actions aren’t always an advantage. Bumrah’s action makes it really hard for the batsman to judge the pace and length of the ball. Coaches shouldn’t change too much. Only optimise for performance.

[the don]

https://twitter.com/taimoorze/status/1686632008447909888/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1686632008447909888&currentTweetUser=taimoorze

 

visually as quick as any yorker I have seen.

[wazza]

22 minutes ago, the don said:

https://twitter.com/taimoorze/status/1686632008447909888/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1686632008447909888&currentTweetUser=taimoorze

 

visually as quick as any yorker I have seen.

Not working. Who? 

 

I agree perfect action is not always optimal but stingy action with braced front leg is ideal for express speed.

[MediumPacer]

39 minutes ago, the don said:

Picture perfect actions aren’t always an advantage. Bumrah’s action makes it really hard for the batsman to judge the pace and length of the ball. Coaches shouldn’t change too much. Only optimise for performance.

Most of such actions don't work due to injuries,malinga didn't last long in tests and tanvir also went downhill .Look at wood how increasing his runup  has increased his pace.

[MediumPacer]

Should koushik be picked in the indian team.

[Axl100mph]

5 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

In an era of 3 formats and leagues, you can't expect fast bowlers to clock those speeds. Akhtar was only in this range between 1999-2003 and even then missed a lot of cricket and had to take it lightly on many days etc. 

 

Edit : Unless you are Brett Lee. But he is an outlier.

1999 - 2006

 

Several matches in 2004 and 2005 where he bowled 153 plus spells peaking at 156, 157 in tests, only to be outdone by the ridiculously flat pitches. By then he was a lot smarter and used other skills as well, hence the focus wasnt always on speed as it was until 2003. However he would turn it up when he needed to particularly with the old ball or if he smelled blood after a wicket.

His body began to fail him post 2007.

He was no longer himself, and ran with a limp after that. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Axl100mph

[Axl100mph]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The speeds are impressive but it's not unique. Lee has matched these speeds and at least in the 2015/16 season I'm convinced that Starc was somewhere in that range. Tait in T20's

 

But the scary thing about Akhtar was that he had this ability to produce some extraordinary deliveries that no other human, I think, has produced.  Not consistently in a spell but they usually came out of nowhere.  His short-of-a-length stuff when in rhythm probably only registered as 148 kph as opposed to 158 but they were life-threatening. 

 

He got Joel Garner'esque steep lift but around 8-10 kph quicker. Johnson hit that length at the same pace but the bounce was not as steep.  It's the stuff that felled Ganguly, Lara, Kirsten, etc. 

 

And THAT ball to Shane Watson is the single most lethal delivery ever in the history of cricket. Outrageous ball. A little fuller and I'm convinced Watson would have been killed on the spot. 

 

 

 

 

I dont think we will see another bowler like him. It was an absolute freak show when he was on song, and he liked being that.

 

A bowler who if he came before the modern/speedgun era, and his stories would be told today, then no one would have believed them because such a viewing experience can almost not be comprehended by today's fans. 

 

I read an interesting article on him on cricinfo which details how underrated he is.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/was-shoaib-akhtar-s-talent-overshadowed-by-his-sagas-1228435

 

Do check it out. 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

2 hours ago, Axl100mph said:

1999 - 2006

 

Several matches in 2004 and 2005 where he bowled 153 plus spells peaking at 156, 157 in tests, only to be outdone by the ridiculously flat pitches. By then he was a lot smarter and used other skills as well, hence the focus wasnt always on speed as it was until 2003. However he would turn it up when he needed to particularly with the old ball or if he smelled blood after a wicket.

His body began to fail him post 2007.

He was no longer himself, and ran with a limp after that. 

I can't quite put my finger on it and maybe it's not just Tests and maybe it's not just the speed but I'm also thinking ODI's here. But Akhtar certainly lost something even a bit earlier than that. Maybe it's just that batsmen got better and pitches got flatter around 2002. But there was a serious fear factor about Shoaib from 1999 to mid 2002(this ODI series in Australia) that started disappearing. 

[MediumPacer]

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/wi-vs-ind-avesh-khan-ready-for-reboot-after-being-all-over-the-place-1390587

 

 

poor avesh

 

 

looks more of a red ball bowler according to his record.

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/wi-vs-ind-avesh-khan-ready-for-reboot-after-being-all-over-the-place-1390587

 

 

poor avesh

 

 

looks more of a red ball bowler according to his record.

His problem is loss of pace.

He was never an out and our express pacer but can hit 138-144 kph in short bursts.

Now even he is struggling to hit 140 and is operating in 130-137 range...not to mention that his pace is inversely proportional to number of overs he has to bowl.

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by singhvivek141

[MediumPacer]

50 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

His problem is loss of pace.

He was never an out and our express pacer but can hit 138-144 kph in short bursts.

Now even he is struggling to hit 140 and is operating in 130-137 range...not to mention that his pace is inversely proportional to number of overs he has to bowl.

 

Maybe after a long Ranji season he loses pace,needs to work on his action and fitness.

 

That Pakistani pacer In the A team tournament in SL looked a lot like Avesh,but his action and fitness looked much better.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

His problem is loss of pace.

He was never an out and our express pacer but can hit 138-144 kph in short bursts.

Now even he is struggling to hit 140 and is operating in 130-137 range...not to mention that his pace is inversely proportional to number of overs he has to bowl.

 

 

Avesh's biggest issue has always been sub-par fitness .... and unless he addresses this issue, he will always face problems. 

[Axl100mph]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I can't quite put my finger on it and maybe it's not just Tests and maybe it's not just the speed but I'm also thinking ODI's here. But Akhtar certainly lost something even a bit earlier than that. Maybe it's just that batsmen got better and pitches got flatter around 2002. But there was a serious fear factor about Shoaib from 1999 to mid 2002(this ODI series in Australia) that started disappearing. 

Batsmen started getting better vs pace at the turn of the millenium because of the wider availability and improvement of training facilities such as bowling machines and sidearms. Combine that with the flatter pitches, particularly the ones dished out by coward pakistani captains who didnt want to be dragged out of their comfort zones.

Also, the bowling attack he was part of dropped significantly in quality once the W's retired which meant he had to some donkey work there too which adds to that whole perception value.