Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Lone Wolf]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Siraj and Shami bowled some good yorkers today from round the wicket. This takes the slow pitch out of the equation. Combined them with some good bouncers too to create deception. 

 

Good to see them get some practice for sluggish pitches in the KOs. 

Amdavad would be carbon copy of this track...  Low bounce sluggish but mostly flat. 

[MediumPacer]

17 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

That applies to any pitch.

 

Low full tosses are usually safe if delivered quick. Half volleys will be hit on any pitch 

 

But length balls don't have the desired effect on sluggish pitches. And such pitches have to be taken out of the equation. 

 

A good, quick and accurate yorker is the best ball any pacer can bowl. 

Sluggish pitches are harder for batsmen ,they can't time the ball,just use the pitch.

 

On easy batting tracks length balls are easy to hit,then yorkers can be tried out of desperation or in conditions where  balls get scuffed up enough for reverse swing, even then length balls are better.How often have we seen attempted yorkers hit for a 6 in ipl.

Edited November 12, 2023 by MediumPacer

[Need4Speed]

I saw intnesity during bowling was a lower today.but its better to avoid any injuries..however..I also noticed..Siraj working on yorkers..round the wicket practice..wide off the stump..I liked that..

[MediumPacer]

18 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

he is famous to bowl economical spells but just bcos he bowls economically he cannot be among the first 6 to 7 bowlers who represent India.

understand the competition is very fierce.  even the best cant represent india.

Perfection is required - perfection means 140K+, Can SWING , Can bowl perfect Line & Length - Siraj Shammi and Siraj fit into all these 3 categories. 

Siraj is a faltu fielder , shammi also as a fielder is not upto the mark but slightly better than Siraj. BOOM kind of meets expectations.

All fast bowlers are average fielders

Check his sr,how many in india have such a low sr in fc or list a 

[vishalvirsingh]

6 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

I saw intnesity during bowling was a lower today.but its better to avoid any injuries..however..I also noticed..Siraj working on yorkers..round the wicket practice..wide off the stump..I liked that..

I noticed that Boom showed a bit of intensity sometimes but Shammi and Siraj were not trying hard. 

Prasidh and even Shardul could have been brought in as Prasidh is pretty close to Siraj in capability and He would have tried truly hard.

 

had these 3 pacers tried hard, they would have got the Netherlands under 150 even on this Patta. i liked BOOM only today. Siraj and Shammi did not impress me today.

 

 

 

[express bowling]

8 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Sluggish pitches are harder for batsmen ,they can't time the ball,just use the pitch.

 

On easy batting tracks length balls are easy to hit,then yorkers can be tried out of desperation or in conditions where  balls get scuffed up enough for reverse swing, even then length balls are better.How often have we seen attempted yorkers hit for a 6 in ipl.

 

 

Batters can't time the ball if slower balls are bowled on such pitches.  But that can't be the only ball bowled. 

 

Yorkers get hit only if the pacer is inept at bowling them. How many Bumrah's yorkers get hit ?  If a pacer can bowl good yorkers then it's the best delivery. Quicks should practice it more and more.

[vishalvirsingh]

i agree to ganguly- Srinath, ZAK, and Nehra as a combo were better than BOOM, Shammi and Siraj.

 

As a captain if I get to choose one of these attacks, I will take ZAK, Srinath, and Nehra at their Peak. 2 left arm quicks who were supremely confident of their capabilities, and Srinath who was 6.4 ft and could bowl up to 153K if he wanted to. 

srinath had the same capability to bowl some Jaffa's like Boom.

ZAK had SKILL and Pace and Left ARM

Nehra was no less than ZAK and Srinath though he had serious fitness issues.

 

Currently, BOOMSHAMSIRAJ too are good but not as good as them.

Let us see whether they can win us the World Cup.  I guess we will beat New Zealand and then we will play AUSTRALIA( Africa may loose).

 

Beating Australia Or Africa in the finals is definitely possible on any INDIAN Pitch. Kuldeep and Jaddu also need to perform at their best. 

if Kuldeep is in form he can take 4 wickets too, but seems his form is going down a bit. I expected Kuldeep to take a fifer today against the Netherlands as Pitch was patta but assisted spinners a bit.

[MediumPacer]

11 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Batters can't time the ball if slower balls are bowled on such pitches.  But that can't be the only ball bowled. 

 

Yorkers get hit only if the pacer is inept at bowling them. How many Bumrah's yorkers get hit ?  If a pacer can bowl good yorkers then it's the best delivery. Quicks should practice it more and more.

Yorkers are too risky ,if it comes off great but no need for such risk on sluggish pitches

[MediumPacer]

1 minute ago, vishalvirsingh said:

i agree to ganguly- Srinath, ZAK, and Nehra as a combo were better than BOOM, Shammi and Siraj.

 

As a captain if I get to choose one of these attacks, I will take ZAK, Srinath, and Nehra at their Peak. 2 left arm quicks who were supremely confident of their capabilities, and Srinath who was 6.4 ft and could bowl up to 153K if he wanted to. 

srinath had the same capability to bowl some Jaffa's like Boom.

ZAK had SKILL and Pace and Left ARM

Nehra was no less than ZAK and Srinath though he had serious fitness issues.

 

Currently, BOOMSHAMSIRAJ too are good but not as good as them.

Let us see whether they can win us the World Cup.  I guess we will beat New Zealand and then we will play AUSTRALIA( Africa may loose).

 

Beating Australia Or Africa in the finals is definitely possible on any INDIAN Pitch. Kuldeep and Jaddu also need to perform at their best. 

if Kuldeep is in form he can take 4 wickets too, but seems his form is going down a bit. I expected Kuldeep to take a fifer today against the Netherlands as Pitch was patta but assisted spinners a bit.

I think these 3 are better overall,but those 3 were bowling well in that wc.

[tapandrun]

12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Batters can't time the ball if slower balls are bowled on such pitches.  But that can't be the only ball bowled. 

 

Yorkers get hit only if the pacer is inept at bowling them. How many Bumrah's yorkers get hit ?  If a pacer can bowl good yorkers then it's the best delivery. Quicks should practice it more and more.

Yes, reminds of what Malinga did to Ind in a test where there was nothing for the bowlers, ball was hardly getting to the knees. 

Then he bowled some spell of just yorkish like bowling, one of the better spells of fast bowling in Ind.

 

Slugish and tacky wkts are v.good for hit the pitch kind of bowlers-Bollinger used to do that for CSK.

 

 

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Check his sr,how many in india have such a low sr in fc or list a 

 

Low level batters get out if a seamer is accurate, irrespective of pace. Which is why the most accurate seamer seems the best even if he is slow medium. 

 

Top international batters need either pace or bounce + accuracy + some movement to get out. 

 

Which is why top domestic pacers are often not chosen to represent their countries.

[express bowling]

8 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Yorkers are too risky ,if it comes off great but no need for such risk on sluggish pitches

 

Depends on who is bowling them. 

 

Practice and more practice is the key, just like most things in life. 

[MediumPacer]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Depends on who is bowling them. 

 

Practice and more practice is the key, just like most things in life. 

Then it can't be a genaral advice for all pacers.

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

i agree to ganguly- Srinath, ZAK, and Nehra as a combo were better than BOOM, Shammi and Siraj.

 

As a captain if I get to choose one of these attacks, I will take ZAK, Srinath, and Nehra at their Peak. 2 left arm quicks who were supremely confident of their capabilities, and Srinath who was 6.4 ft and could bowl up to 153K if he wanted to. 

srinath had the same capability to bowl some Jaffa's like Boom.

ZAK had SKILL and Pace and Left ARM

Nehra was no less than ZAK and Srinath though he had serious fitness issues.

 

Currently, BOOMSHAMSIRAJ too are good but not as good as them.

Let us see whether they can win us the World Cup.  I guess we will beat New Zealand and then we will play AUSTRALIA( Africa may loose).

 

Beating Australia Or Africa in the finals is definitely possible on any INDIAN Pitch. Kuldeep and Jaddu also need to perform at their best. 

if Kuldeep is in form he can take 4 wickets too, but seems his form is going down a bit. I expected Kuldeep to take a fifer today against the Netherlands as Pitch was patta but assisted spinners a bit.

 

 

You have to look at the ODI bowling averages of these 6 quicks to get your answer.

 

Bumrah  ....  23.3 

Shami    ....   23.9 

Siraj  ......    21.6 

Srinath .... 28.1  

Zaheer  ....  29.4 

Nehra  ....  31.7 

 

The 3 current quicks have better stats in an era where the average ODI Team score has become 100 more than 20 years back. 

 

Bumrah is a notch above any other good Indian pacer and Shami has amazing wickets taking ability in ODIs 

 

Bumrah

Shami

Srinath

 

Would be be my pick. 

 

 

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Then it can't be a genaral advice for all pacers.

 

The general advice is practice them and perfect them and try them in low key matches like today. 

 

Which is why I liked it  

[MediumPacer]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

The general advice is practice them and perfect them and try them in low key matches like today. 

 

Which is why I liked it  

You had earlier said to use them in ko matches if pitch is sluggish.

[tapandrun]

43 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

i agree to ganguly- Srinath, ZAK, and Nehra as a combo were better than BOOM, Shammi and Siraj.

 

As a captain if I get to choose one of these attacks, I will take ZAK, Srinath, and Nehra at their Peak. 2 left arm quicks who were supremely confident of their capabilities, and Srinath who was 6.4 ft and could bowl up to 153K if he wanted to. 

srinath had the same capability to bowl some Jaffa's like Boom.

ZAK had SKILL and Pace and Left ARM

Nehra was no less than ZAK and Srinath though he had serious fitness issues.

 

Currently, BOOMSHAMSIRAJ too are good but not as good as them.

Let us see whether they can win us the World Cup.  I guess we will beat New Zealand and then we will play AUSTRALIA( Africa may loose).

 

Beating Australia Or Africa in the finals is definitely possible on any INDIAN Pitch. Kuldeep and Jaddu also need to perform at their best. 

if Kuldeep is in form he can take 4 wickets too, but seems his form is going down a bit. I expected Kuldeep to take a fifer today against the Netherlands as Pitch was patta but assisted spinners a bit.

 

Never in favour of comparing players of different eras. But donot think combo of Zak,Nehra and Srinath was ever compared to be the top amongst their contemporary.

 Srinath was first ever proper fast bowler from Ind- but Ind never tried to find out another proper bowler who can go in tandem, so he had to bowl alot and caused him to cut down his speed and in the end an injury.

 

 Had Zak not had that 2011 WC- Do not think he would have been talked so highly of. He had awful-2003 Finals, 2007-he was no match to a 17 yo Tamin, who was running down to Zak's sub 135 kmph bouncers, and then Zak went off the field after bowling just 4 balls into a test match.  

 

Nehra was on and off thing - Do not think he was ever fully fit, 

 

Shami, Bhumrah, and Siraj are all 140+ kmph at their prime playing together, they may have a bad day but, all these combined even when one of them have a off day other 2 can cover it.

 

So comparison would be unfair 3 bowlers in their prime bowling together to a combo who never played thogehtrt in their respective primes.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by tapandrun

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

They should try Iyer as well...go for the legs is the key

 

iyer would be a better fit than SKY.

[Vijy]

23 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

You have to look at the ODI bowling averages of these 6 quicks to get your answer.

 

Bumrah  ....  23.3 

Shami    ....   23.9 

Siraj  ......    21.6 

Srinath .... 28.1  

Zaheer  ....  29.4 

Nehra  ....  31.7 

 

The 3 current quicks have better stats in an era where the average ODI Team score has become 100 more than 20 years back. 

 

Bumrah is a notch above any other good Indian pacer and Shami has amazing wickets taking ability in ODIs 

 

Bumrah

Shami

Srinath

 

Would be be my pick. 

 

 

I would want mid-90s srinath with early 2000s nous. that would be one quick and fairly clever bowler. Sri at his peak was faster than boom and shami, although boom is harder to face

[Vijy]

we need a better pitch for SF. also, both shami and siraj were unimpressive today, especially shami. I wonder if the Old Man has run out of gas/sexting @express bowling