Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Rightarmfast]

Comparing Mukesh to a Shami is stretching it by a light year. I can compare him to praveen kumar at best. Praveen kumar could swing the ball almost at will. Mukesh doesnt have that. He will never be the enforcer. And despite the notorious support for Mukesh on this forum, I will be blunt and say Mukesh serves no purpose to this Indian team. Indian team has moved way beyond the likes of Mukesh Kumar about 20 yrs ago. 

India is already delayed, they should have started the hunt for Bumrah's, Shami's, and Ishant's successor about 2 yrs ago. They have Siraj as one of the replacement. They need 3-4 quality genuine pace, bouncy bowlers at the earliest. Tyagi needs to be in the scheme of things. So does Umran. 

The point is, if we are going to have a Mukesh Kumar giving away 50 odd runs on a dangerous pitch like Cape town, we might as well invest in younger, quicker, bouncier, and meaner bowlers and give them a longer stretch. Giving 20 odd tests to Mukesh and then finding out he is no good makes no sense. And that's exactly whats going to happen if we do not stop this experiment.

[harpicP]

49 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Mukesh is a gamble. He will be ineffective in subcontinent. And despite his lack of pace, he has a tendency to bowl no balls. England is his best bet. But there are plenty pacers way better than him waiting in the queue.

Surprised you feel he won't do well in India? Record looks ridiculous. Yes I know records can be a farce because they don't play elite batsmen in domestics often but a seam oriented bowler like him would be pretty potent in India I think. Lack of pace may be a little worry. 

That sweet spot between 135 to 145 is what he needs to bowl at consistently. 

[harpicP]

17 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Comparing Mukesh to a Shami is stretching it by a light year. I can compare him to praveen kumar at best. Praveen kumar could swing the ball almost at will. Mukesh doesnt have that. He will never be the enforcer. And despite the notorious support for Mukesh on this forum, I will be blunt and say Mukesh serves no purpose to this Indian team. Indian team has moved way beyond the likes of Mukesh Kumar about 20 yrs ago. 

India is already delayed, they should have started the hunt for Bumrah's, Shami's, and Ishant's successor about 2 yrs ago. They have Siraj as one of the replacement. They need 3-4 quality genuine pace, bouncy bowlers at the earliest. Tyagi needs to be in the scheme of things. So does Umran. 

The point is, if we are going to have a Mukesh Kumar giving away 50 odd runs on a dangerous pitch like Cape town, we might as well invest in younger, quicker, bouncier, and meaner bowlers and give them a longer stretch. Giving 20 odd tests to Mukesh and then finding out he is no good makes no sense. And that's exactly whats going to happen if we do not stop this experiment.

I wouldn't say 20 odd tests. One more series. Right now we are comparing him with pk who was dog shite. So he automatically gets favoured there and over shardul.

 

We will have to wait and see if the next line of rana, tyagi and mayank will get chances to prove themselves. 

[Rightarmfast]

1 minute ago, harpicP said:

Surprised you feel he won't do well in India? Record looks ridiculous. Yes I know records can be a farce because they don't play elite batsmen in domestics often but a seam oriented bowler like him would be pretty potent in India I think. Lack of pace may be a little worry. 

That sweet spot between 135 to 145 is what he needs to bowl at consistently. 

I am going to be honest. His official age is 30, but he looks nothing less than 32 to me. So, unless he is a Mcgrath, how long can he serve Indian cricket? We need to have a holistic, top down view on this. 

Besides, he just doesnt have the pace, and has tendency to bowl no balls every now and then. I am not saying he is a bad bowler. At very best, he is a decent bowler. But we need enforcers, we need bowlers who instill fear in opposition like Bumrah and Shami do. Mukesh is past that age now. 

As far as records are concerned, we have had bowlers and batsmen with better records who didnt do much in international cricket. I can only comment on what I have seen. And what I have seen tells me he doesnt impress me much.

And this is coming from a person who spent his initial childhood years in Bihar. I have a soft spot for Bihari players, but Mukesh isnt one of them. I would invest on Shabbir Khan, than Mukesh.

[Rightarmfast]

5 minutes ago, harpicP said:

I wouldn't say 20 odd tests. One more series. Right now we are comparing him with pk who was dog shite. So he automatically gets favoured there and over shardul.

 

We will have to wait and see if the next line of rana, tyagi and mayank will get chances to prove themselves. 

But PK has age to his side. Mukesh doesnt have that luxury.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

I am going to be honest. His official age is 30, but he looks nothing less than 32 to me. So, unless he is a Mcgrath, how long can he serve Indian cricket? We need to have a holistic, top down view on this. 

Besides, he just doesnt have the pace, and has tendency to bowl no balls every now and then. I am not saying he is a bad bowler. At very best, he is a decent bowler. But we need enforcers, we need bowlers who instill fear in opposition like Bumrah and Shami do. Mukesh is past that age now. 

As far as records are concerned, we have had bowlers and batsmen with better records who didnt do much in international cricket. I can only comment on what I have seen. And what I have seen tells me he doesnt impress me much.

And this is coming from a person who spent his initial childhood years in Bihar. I have a soft spot for Bihari players, but Mukesh isnt one of them. I would invest on Shabbir Khan, than Mukesh.

 

One problem we are facing is that the young quick bowlers keep getting injured at the most inopportune times.

 

Kuldeep Sen was picked for ODIs last year after a great VHT but got injured after a match. And is still not fully fit.

 

Harshit Rana was picked for India A last month but got injured before the match. This guy has good FC numbers and bowls with a lot of intensity and effort in every match I have seen him in.  

 

Mayank Yadav, the accurate 150 k pacer, got a freak injury before last IPL. Fell from the stairs or something like that. Now injured again before Ranji Trophy from what I am hearing.

 

Tyagi missed last year's Ranji as well.

 

Even if I and you were the selectors, how would we pick them if they are either injured or missing domestic cricket.

 

And the NCA is messing up injury management big time. Once someone is injured they take an unusual time to recover. NCA,says he is fit but it relapses after a game or two. 

[Rightarmfast]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

One problem we are facing is that the young quick bowlers keep getting injured at the most inopportune times.

 

Kuldeep Sen was picked for ODIs last year after a great VHT but got injured after a match. And is still not fully fit.

 

Harshit Rana was picked for India A last month but got injured before the match. This guy has good FC numbers and bowls with a lot of intensity and effort in every match I have seen him in.  

 

Mayank Yadav, the accurate 150 k pacer, got a freak injury before last IPL. Fell from the stairs or something like that. Now injured again before Ranji Trophy from what I am hearing.

 

Tyagi missed last year's Ranji as well.

 

Even if I and you were the selectors, how would we pick them if they are either injured or missing domestic cricket.

 

And the NCA is messing up injury management big time. Once someone is injured they take an unusual time to recover. NCA,says he is fit but it relapses after a game or two. 

From how I see it, @express bowling, BCCI has billions of money. The moment you see a youngster with potentials, someone like a Tyagi or Mayank Yadav, make a pool of 15-20 bowlers of such calibre, get them permanently admitted to an NCA or the likes where the education is taken care of. I dont know, maybe they are already doing that. 

But you need to keep these bowlers in an academy where they are monitored on a daily basis. 

This is how european countries made world class boxers and gymnasts. 

 

Even otherwise, both of us know that the management purposefully sidelines the genuine quickies. We can't move forward like this. You need to give them opportunity at the right time. Umran Malik would have been lethal in this series. Or if not, it would be a great learning curve for him. The point is, investment.

[Suhaan]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

r. I have a soft spot for Bihari players, but Mukesh isnt one of them. I would invest on Shabbir Khan, than Mukesh.

Yes ,Sabir Khan

[Rightarmfast]

5 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Yes ,Sabir Khan

Yes.. the same guy. He is pretty nippy, and he has the will to bowl better and faster.

[singhvivek141]

32 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

One problem we are facing is that the young quick bowlers keep getting injured at the most inopportune times.

 

Kuldeep Sen was picked for ODIs last year after a great VHT but got injured after a match. And is still not fully fit.

 

Harshit Rana was picked for India A last month but got injured before the match. This guy has good FC numbers and bowls with a lot of intensity and effort in every match I have seen him in.  

 

Mayank Yadav, the accurate 150 k pacer, got a freak injury before last IPL. Fell from the stairs or something like that. Now injured again before Ranji Trophy from what I am hearing.

 

Tyagi missed last year's Ranji as well.

 

Even if I and you were the selectors, how would we pick them if they are either injured or missing domestic cricket.

 

And the NCA is messing up injury management big time. Once someone is injured they take an unusual time to recover. NCA,says he is fit but it relapses after a game or two. 

In Kuldeep's case, I think it's sheer lack of incompetency.

 

Dude plays one game in Bangladesh, complains of a sore back..goes to NCA and spends 6 months. Comes back in IPL, bowl couple of overs in 2 games spread across, again talks of him being injured, few months later plays couple of games in SMAT and voila...injured again.

 

Same bowler was bowling like a freak in 2022...IPL, Irani Trophy, SMAT, VHT overs after overs in the heat without slowing down.

 

Tyagi somehow has kept himself fit from last 6 months, has played UPT20, SMAT, VHT. Otherwise Mohsin, Sen, Mayank all are getting injured every year after couple of months.

Edited January 5, 2024 by singhvivek141

[singhvivek141]

9 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Yes.. the same guy. He is pretty nippy, and he has the will to bowl better and faster.

He is in one of the IPL teams as well...isn't it ?

[Suhaan]

2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

He is in one of the IPL teams as well...isn't it ?

Which side?

[singhvivek141]

2 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Which side?

Ah no...there is one Sakib Hussain in KKR...19 year old from Bihar. Got confused with him.

Unless they both are same & names are mixed up.

 

[Suhaan]

21 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Ah no...there is one Sakib Hussain in KKR...19 year old from Bihar. Got confused with him.

Unless they both are same & names are mixed up.

 

Sakib this one is,hyper extended

[express bowling]

35 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

In Kuldeep's case, I think it's sheer lack of incompetency.

 

Dude plays one game in Bangladesh, complains of a sore back..goes to NCA and spends 6 months. Comes back in IPL, bowl couple of overs in 2 games spread across, again talks of him being injured, few months later plays couple of games in SMAT and voila...injured again.

 

Same bowler was bowling like a freak in 2022...IPL, Irani Trophy, SMAT, VHT overs after overs in the heat without slowing down.

 

Tyagi somehow has kept himself fit from last 6 months, has played UPT20, SMAT, VHT. Otherwise Mohsin, Sen, Mayank all are getting injured every year after couple of months.

 

Injury management at the NCA needs to be looked into by the BCCI. It is highly inefficient and many semi-fit players are becoming permanently injured after a few days of rehab there.

 

This is a serious issue.

[harpicP]

Shami missed out on huge stat padding opportunity in SA which sucks. 

 

We know his quality anyway. 

 

And yes nca sucks at managing players fitness levels and are terrible at injury management. 

[singhvivek141]

37 minutes ago, harpicP said:

Shami missed out on huge stat padding opportunity in SA which sucks. 

 

We know his quality anyway. 

 

And yes nca sucks at managing players fitness levels and are terrible at injury management. 

That's fine, Shami anyway doesn't have much years left in his tank. By 2025 I think he will call off, so it's better to look for his replacements for the long term in Tests.

[tapandrun]

Any good pacer to watch-out for this ranji season ?

 

Wanted to see Wasim Basir -heard he is quick 

[Rightarmfast]

7 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Ah no...there is one Sakib Hussain in KKR...19 year old from Bihar. Got confused with him.

Unless they both are same & names are mixed up.

 

KKR Sakib is a different one.

[singhvivek141]

9 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Any good pacer to watch-out for this ranji season ?

 

Wanted to see Wasim Basir -heard he is quick 

Nopes, looks like a snoozefest.

 

UP has Tyagi, Jharkhand has Sushant but both are not playing this round

J&K has Umran, Andhra has Prithviraj..that's it.

 

No Hangargekar, Harshit, Sen, Mayank, Yudhvir, Lokesh Raj....

 

Amongst spinners I am keeping an eye on Rahul Chahar & Bishnoi...both have a real good chance in the white ball format courtesy of their skills. Sai Kishore is another one.

Edited January 5, 2024 by singhvivek141