Austin 3:!6 Posted July 22, 2014 Author Posted July 22, 2014 If we do win the next test or any of the other two matches' date=' it will finally be a joy to win more than a test match overseas. When was the last time we won more than two matches in a series away? Pak 2004? Our captains in the past have been satisified with one test match win away and that culture needs to change.[/quote'] Its a very good point you made. This is a new young side and lets build a culture of winning mindset. Historically, if India used to win 1 test they were more than happy to draw the remaining matches. This mindset needs to change and the onus lies on Dhoni & Flecher. It was very disappointing to see when we didn't declare in the 1st match and went on to bat for a boring draw. Agree that game was out of reach but making England bat again for one and half session would have send a strong message that we are trying to win. You never knew, couple wickets on a 5th day track then possibly a collapse who knows. I am happy to take a loss trying rather than playing for draw. Hope we build a winning culture going forward :nice:
Fontaine Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Take a look at this and tell me we don't need to bring in a fast bowler for Binny to support Bhuvi/Ishant? http://stats.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=8561;type=series If Ishant once against goes back to evil Sharma or Bhuvi has an off day then we're screwed because no other bowlers looks close to taking wickets.
Texan Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Ashwin for Binny Aaron for Shami Perhaps one more chance for Dhawan
rkt.india Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Take a look at this and tell me we don't need to bring in a fast bowler for Binny to support Bhuvi/Ishant? http://stats.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=8561;type=series If Ishant once against goes back to evil Sharma or Bhuvi has an off day then we're screwed because no other bowlers looks close to taking wickets. We certainly need one more bowler who can contribute with wickets. BK and Ishant wont take 5-fers every time. Shami has struggled with fitness and rhythm. Jadeja have been able to keep them quiet, but even Moin has more wickets than him.
Fontaine Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 We certainly need one more bowler who can contribute with wickets. BK and Ishant won take 5-fers every time. Shami has struggled with fitness and rhythm. Jadeja have been able to keep them quiet' date=' but even Moin has more wickets than him.[/quote'] Yeah, it's been an age old problem for India but they've brought extra pace bowlers on this tour so we need to start using them. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense for a guy like Pankaj to play since he's been one of the most consistently top wicket takes in domestic cricket and also has far more experience than other guys.
maniac Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Need Aaron in to shake up the English batsmen even if it is at an expense of an out of form shami....the guy has raw pace and a very good short ball.....him being a gun. Barrel straight bowler was a assumption even I had but he can move the ball.....he can be the 3rd seamer and ishu can get the new ball.
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Need Aaron in to shake up the English batsmen even if it is at an expense of an out of form shami....the guy has raw pace and a very good short ball.....him being a gun. Barrel straight bowler was a assumption even I had but he can move the ball.....he can be the 3rd seamer and ishu can get the new ball. that would be a disaster with only one guy able o control/move new ball and one guy old ball specialist and other totally untested and has literally done nothing to deserve place as 4th seamer aaron can play but if you want to replace shami so bad replace him with pankaj
maniac Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 that would be a disaster with only one guy able o control/move new ball and one guy old ball specialist and other totally untested and has literally done nothing to deserve place as 4th seamer aaron can play but if you want to replace shami so bad replace him with pankaj Pankaj will not bring in anything new....rather stick with shami who has the extra pace even though I am assuming pankaj will be more consistent than him. The only thing to complete our bowling attack is genuine pace.....worth the gamble IMHO.
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Pankaj will not bring in anything new....rather stick with shami who has the extra pace even though I am assuming pankaj will be more consistent than him. The only thing to complete our bowling attack is genuine pace.....worth the gamble IMHO. you are expecting miracles from bench while i can tell you even now no one is as good as shami but if what rkt says is correct that sham might get injured than replace him with pankaj and play aaron in place of binny but do not include aaron to bowl with new ball or to swing it he has to do job of enforcer or whatever they call it if match was in australia i would have backed aaron ahead of many but in england you need to bowl full ,swing ball and attack stumps something we did better than england shami included aso keep in mind shami got new ball less than others but still had one early drop in first inning and broke big partnership by getting ballance and to me he is getting better and if its jsut about rhythm i will say he will soon bowl at his best but if fitness really is problem then please include some one who can swing rather than commiting suicide
maniac Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 you are expecting miracles from bench while i can tell you even now no one is as good as shami but if what rkt says is correct that sham might get injured than replace him with pankaj and play aaron in place of binny but do not include aaron to bowl with new ball or to swing it he has to do job of enforcer or whatever they call it if match was in australia i would have backed aaron ahead of many but in england you need to bowl full ,swing ball and attack stumps something we did better than england shami included aso keep in mind shami got new ball less than others but still had one early drop in first inning and broke big partnership by getting ballance and to me he is getting better and if its jsut about rhythm i will say he will soon bowl at his best but if fitness really is problem then please include some one who can swing rather than commiting suicide You guys are expecting miracles from pankaj...he is ordinary....get ready for pankaj is a tundler hate if he gets a chance to debut.....yeah he is better than Pandey that's it.
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 You guys are expecting miracles from pankaj...he is ordinary....get ready for pankaj is a tundler hate if he gets a chance to debut.....yeah he is better than Pandey that's it. thats what i am saying and thats why i want shami to play :cantstop: but he does has his place if he can bowl 135 k with control and move the ball from his height he will be deadly on these tracks but those are big ifs and people rarely get things right on debut
maniac Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 thats what i am saying and thats why i want shami to play :cantstop: but he does has his place if he can bowl 135 k with control and move the ball from his height he will be deadly on these tracks but those are big ifs and people rarely get things right on debut Agree if it comes down to pankaj vs shami then shami it is.....but the kind of thinking that Aaron is erratic or will fail even though he has a special ability for an indian pacer is what sets us backwards.....a guy who has an unique ability who apart from yadav or ishant at times to hit 145-150 is special and needs to be given a shot.
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Agree if it comes down to pankaj vs shami then shami it is.....but the kind of thinking that Aaron is erratic or will fail even though he has a special ability for an indian pacer is what sets us backwards.....a guy who has an unique ability who apart from yadav or ishant at times to hit 145-150 is special and needs to be given a shot. aaron is not erratic i would take erratic strike bowler like umesh but problem with aaron is just way he get wickets will not work in england ipl is no benchmark but when bhuvi was getting them to drive and swinging ball to get wickets he got wickets with pace and bounce and rarely moved the ball ..he can be good addition to attack and give much needed pace factor but he is not ready to play in 3 man attack..does it makes sense ? also where have you seen him move ball conventionally ? in new zealand he barely moved 2 balls and one of them was wide !
rkt.india Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 that would be a disaster with only one guy able o control/move new ball and one guy old ball specialist and other totally untested and has literally done nothing to deserve place as 4th seamer aaron can play but if you want to replace shami so bad replace him with pankaj How will it be a disaster? You are only replacing a bowler who has been ineffective and has not moved the ball much too. Instead playing an unfit bowler can be a disaster if he gets injured midway.
maniac Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Anyways as vvvs said won't be surprised if we go with the same x1 binny included....dhoni may not change a winning combo
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 How will it be a disaster? You are only replacing a bowler who has been ineffective and has not moved the ball much too. Instead playing an unfit bowler can be a disaster if he gets injured midway. not moved the ball much ? we have seen different matches he got edges and there was drop and in 4th inning after moving ball and bowling better than bhuvi he was removed to only bowl near end of day where he got ballance next day there was no movement for anyone after first hour and he was forced to bowl short
rkt.india Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 you are expecting miracles from bench while i can tell you even now no one is as good as shami but if what rkt says is correct that sham might get injured than replace him with pankaj and play aaron in place of binny but do not include aaron to bowl with new ball or to swing it he has to do job of enforcer or whatever they call it I do not know why you think Aaron cannot move the ball. He has a good seam position and if he gets good conditions, he will swing too. He did it even in warmups which were completely on flat tracks and he did not get new ball. Swung the ball in UAE in IPL. Swung the ball at Wankhede in IPL match when he got some help, swung the ball in NZ ODIs on flat tracks due to which he got a few wickets even though he did not bowl with new ball.
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 I do not know why you think Aaron cannot move the ball. He has a good seam position and if he gets good conditions' date=' he will swing too. He did it even in warmups which were completely on flat tracks and he did not get new ball. Swung the ball in UAE in IPL. Swung the ball at Wankhede in IPL match when he got some help, swung the ball in NZ ODIs on flat tracks due to which he got a few wickets even though he did not bowl with new ball.[/quote'] dude in ipl he did not swing the ball much but got wickets with extra pace and bounce with batsmen gong after him and i even proved that in ipl section and in warmups how many wickets did he get ? i thought pankaj was best bowler
rkt.india Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 aaron is not erratic i would take erratic strike bowler like umesh but problem with aaron is just way he get wickets will not work in england ipl is no benchmark but when bhuvi was getting them to drive and swinging ball to get wickets he got wickets with pace and bounce and rarely moved the ball ..he can be good addition to attack and give much needed pace factor but he is not ready to play in 3 man attack..does it makes sense ? also where have you seen him move ball conventionally ? in new zealand he barely moved 2 balls and one of them was wide ! He does not need to move the ball like BK to be effective. If BK bowls his pace, even he wont be able to move the ball much and then he got conditions where he could move the ball. Why did not BK move the ball in 2nd innings in Lords. Swing is always condition dependent. If there is huge swing, BK alone is enough, but you need someone who can do other things too and then Shami is not moving the ball much too.
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 i think we have problem is always thinking next guy will be better ...i do not see people asking kohli to be dropped but you want shami dropped ..i am not even sure about fitness as he looked ok to me in 2nd test but i took your word for it he bowled plenty of overs and bowled well did not get rewards but even ishant did not pick a wicket in first inning there was drop of shami and he got 2 after that so 3 wickets should have been in first inning and he got 1 in 2nd being under bowled and bowling when conditions did not suit him and with older ball you can all it ineffective but to be getting 4 wickets in match is pretty good effort when ts not ur day
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