Won only one abroad test in 3 years.... Then what the captain does?

[rkt.india]

We don't have good 4.. So why keep going back to having good 4. We have good 1. That's it. least we can do is manage the 1. Similarly if we have good 5 why do you need 6 in the batting deartment. Also.. bowlers will in addition contribute.

I am saying same too. If 5th was that good, he would have been playing in first 4 already. If 5th is good, it means selection is bad and he should be in 4 who are playing rather than sitting. Same thing I said in NZ. We do not play our 4 best bowlers. Jaddu was and is still not one of our top 4 bowlers overseas. Even yesterday, he got only when they were looking for quick runs.

[Lannister]

For the F sake, play 5 bowlers in the next match or bring back binny.

[vvvslaxman]

I am saying same too. If 5th was that good' date=' he would have been playing in first 4 already. If 5th is good, it means selection is bad and he should be in 4 who are playing rather than sitting. Same thing I said in NZ. We do not play our 4 best bowlers. Jaddu was and is still not one of our top 4 bowlers overseas. Even yesterday, he got only when they were looking for quick runs.[/quote'] The solution for that is not to add a batsman. India is yet to use 3 more bowlers. Give them a chance instead of a batsman. From day one we have been trying to save this test rather than win the test. HOw many actually believed Bhuvaneswar would come out flying colors, Ishant would take a 7fer. So give them a chance you might be surprised. Umesh and Bhuvan sat the two entire foreign tours. Now Aaron and Ahswin will go back without playing a single test. Pankaj, Aaron, Bhuvan , Shami or Ishwar or Ashwin, Jaddu would have been a more potent bowling unit. Rotation will be better. Tell me what point of thee test we were in a winning position. In no session India looked like winning this test.

[CG]

till Dhoni is the wk batsman its diffiuclt to play 5 bowlers.You going in with 5 batsman and its not enough.

[Straight Drive]

Many teams have struggled to find the 5th bowler - not a specialist rather an all rounder. When Freddie got injured England picked Tim Bresnan. Prior moved on to bat at 6 in that series. England's experiment in developing Tim Bresnan as all rounder as a decent enough replacement to Freddie as an all rounder did not work out. Bresnan is not even in the squad now. They tried Ben Stoes who was the best English player during Ashes played in OZ. After that series he too has failed to stake a claim as a all rounder. Samit Patel too hasn't worked out as AR when even on spin friendly wickets he failed to perform with the ball. Dropped after 4 test series in India . Now they are trying to check out Woakes and Moeen in that AR role. Moeen is a successful batsman and gets decent number of wickets in County Champs year after year. Woakes to is a promising cricketer at domestic level. England will be hoping that one of them steps up as AR consistently. Clearly, everyone wants 5th bowler and hence bowls part timers. The problem is that many teams do not have a good one.

[Lannister]

till Dhoni is the wk batsman its diffiuclt to play 5 bowlers.You going in with 5 batsman and its not enough.

With 5 bowlers, atleast there some hope of getting 20 wickets and also you could restrict the runs making easier for the batsmen.

[vvvslaxman]

till Dhoni is the wk batsman its diffiuclt to play 5 bowlers.You going in with 5 batsman and its not enough.

If Batsmen do their job you don't even need Dhoni. Dhoni has outscored atleast two specialist batsmen in this series. Bhuvaneswar has outscored all but two. It is not to tell they are better than them. It is to tell they are not total duds . YOu suggest as if after 4th wicket falls INdia will be out for no furhter addition. We didn't have genuine 6 in the last 2 tests. dind't suffer. We have genuine 6 now. But we are going to lose.

[vvvslaxman]

Many teams have struggled to find the 5th bowler - not a specialist rather an all rounder. When Freddie got injured England picked Tim Bresnan. Prior moved on to bat at 6 in that series. England's experiment in developing Tim Bresnan as all rounder as a decent enough replacement to Freddie as an all rounder did not work out. Bresnan is not even in the squad now. They tried Ben Stoes who was the best English player during Ashes played in OZ. After that series he too has failed to stake a claim as a all rounder. Samit Patel too hasn't worked out as AR when even on spin friendly wickets he failed to perform with the ball. Dropped after 4 test series in India . Now they are trying to check out Woakes and Moeen in that AR role. Moeen is a successful batsman and gets decent number of wickets in County Champs year after year. Woakes to is a promising cricketer at domestic level. England will be hoping that one of them steps up as AR consistently. Clearly' date=' everyone wants 5th bowler and hence bowls part timers. The problem is that many teams do not have a good one.[/quote'] But their 5th bowler is more than decent one. He really surprised me. He bowled like a pro in this test with great drift. Our 5th bowler is more village level. Actually Joe Root is a better off spinner than any of our part time s pinner. They have 5th and 6th bowlers who are already better than our 5th bowler. So they don't suffer as much as we do.

[asterix]

It's about common sense... Go with 6+1+4, doesn't matter as long as you select right spinner against all those rampaging lefty English batsmen... The left arm darter, Jaddu has been taken to cleaners by them... Even if you think Ashwin as a bits and pieces player, he still will create more chances of getting wicket than Jaddu against left hand batsmen... To think that Nohit as a right arm off spin option is a joke...by all means play Nohit in place of Dhavan but not as a wicket taking option against these Lefty English batsmen... What we've done now is brought all the struggling English batsmen in form when actually they were thinking of quitting... The more I think of T20 type one over spells, the more I :wall:

[-Robin-]

1 Gambhir 2 Vijay 3 Pujara 4 Kohli 5 Rahane 6 Ashwin 7 Bhuvi 8 Dhoni 9 Ishant 10 Pankaj 11 Ishwer Should be team in next match

[CG]

If Batsmen do their job you don't even need Dhoni. Dhoni has outscored atleast two specialist batsmen in this series. Bhuvaneswar has outscored all but two. It is not to tell they are better than them. It is to tell they are not total duds . YOu suggest as if after 4th wicket falls INdia will be out for no furhter addition. We didn't have genuine 6 in the last 2 tests. dind't suffer. We have genuine 6 now. But we are going to lose.

Its simple dhoni the captain does not trust dhoni the batsman.

[vvvslaxman]

It's about common sense... Go with 6+1+4, doesn't matter as long as you select right spinner against all those rampaging lefty English batsmen... The left arm darter, Jaddu has been taken to cleaners by them... Even if you think Ashwin as a bits and pieces player, he still will create more chances of getting wicket than Jaddu against left hand batsmen... To think that Nohit as a right arm off spin option is a joke...by all means play Nohit in place of Dhavan but not as a wicket taking option against these Lefty English batsmen... What we've done now is brought all the struggling a English batsmen in form when actually they were thinking of quitting... The more I think of T20 type one over spells, the more I :wall:

That is the most most important thing here. They were mentally down and out. Cook was about to be axed. All gunes were trained at them. What we did was. giving net practice with the help of our fielders. They will completely shut us down. Bhuvaneswar cannot carry the battle alone. THey have two vasatly superior bowlers. Andereson and Broad. Thank god Finni s not playing.

[vvvslaxman]

Its simple dhoni the captain does not trust dhoni the batsman.

That is freaking obvious. That is why the selection deserves criticism. Even though he is just a keeper, batting is his department. He just protected himself with a cushion leaving bowlers high and dry who will have to slog for 30 , 40 overs.

[rkt.india]

Tell me what point of thee test we were in a winning position. In no session India looked like winning this test.

It is not because of batting but because we fielded and bowled badly. Thing is you can have an out of form batsman but not an out of form bowler in the team that hurts the team most. If you keep playing bowlers who have not done well, this is what is going to happen. You cannot expect one or two bowlers to do it for you every time. There is no guarantee that new one will do well, but at least trying and failing is better than, not trying and failing. We can play 5th bowler too, but if 2 of them are not doing anything then those places are actually waste. You need at least 3 bowlers doing as well as BK and Ishant did in first 2 tests. Here none of them really did well.

[Straight Drive]

But their 5th bowler is more than decent one. He really surprised me. He bowled like a pro in this test with great drift. Our 5th bowler is more village level. Actually Joe Root is a better off spinner than any of our part time s pinner. They have 5th and 6th bowlers who are already better than our 5th bowler. So they don't suffer as much as we do.

imo we need a 5th bowler considering that this is a very long series, flat wickets hence more longer batting innings, managing workload of the pace bowlers in such testing conditions and other formats workload due to increased cricketing tournaments. Moeen has surprised me too. He has taken 5 fer in county matches but he certainly is bowling well at international level as a 5th bowler having chipped in with 2 or 3 wickets in few innings. Considering he is in for his batting primarily as England were looking out for No 6 since last 3 years. His bowling has turned out to be more than a bonus in this series. I have not watched his bowling in this series, in fact i have hardly watches 3 sessions of the whole series so far. So i am not in a position to comment how good a bowler he is skill wise. But seeing past No 6 position for England and the look out for 5th bowler, hsi records do suggest he has performed above average. 24 runs every innings backed with 2 wickets every inning is a above average performance imo. Whether he will be found out or not has to be seen, however a good start so far. Our 5th bowlers in this test are Rohit /Shikhar. Certainly i agree with you that Moeen is a better domestic and international level bowling option than both of these.

[vvvslaxman]

It is not because of batting but because we fielded and bowled badly. Thing is you can have an out of form batsman but not an out of form bowler in the team that hurts the team most. If you keep playing bowlers who have not done well' date=' this is what is going to happen. You cannot expect one or two bowlers to do it for you every time. There is no guarantee that new one will do well, but at least trying and failing is better than, not trying and failing. We can play 5th bowler too, but if 2 of them are not doing anything then those places are actually waste. [b']You need at least 3 bowlers doing as well as BK and Ishant did in first 2 tests. Here none of them really did well.

you increase the probability by adding one more bowler. Don't think it is no different from gambling with 6th batsman except batsman can get out for a duck and he will be totally useless for the rest of the match. But bowler can bowl a bad ball and still can come back in the match.

[rkt.india]

imo we need a 5th bowler considering that this is a very long series, flat wickets hence more longer batting innings, managing workload of the pace bowlers in such testing conditions and other formats workload due to increased cricketing tournaments. Moeen has surprised me too. He has taken 5 fer in county matches but he certainly is bowling well at international level as a 5th bowler having chipped in with 2 or 3 wickets in few innings. Considering he is in for his batting primarily as England were looking out for No 6 since last 3 years. His bowling has turned out to be more than a bonus in this series. I have not watched his bowling in this series, in fact i have hardly watches 3 sessions of the whole series so far. So i am not in a position to comment how good a bowler he is skill wise. But seeing past No 6 position for England and the look out for 5th bowler, hsi records do suggest he has performed above average. 24 runs every innings backed with 2 wickets every inning is a above average performance imo. Whether he will be found out or not has to be seen, however a good start so far. Our 5th bowlers in this test are Rohit /Shikhar. Certainly i agree with you that Moeen is a better domestic and international level bowling option than both of these.

He bowled well against SL and that time I knew, he is not a bad option by any means. He was giving good revs, more than Herath and was handy against lefties.

[asterix]

It is not because of batting but because we fielded and bowled badly. Thing is you can have an out of form batsman but not an out of form bowler in the team that hurts the team most. If you keep playing bowlers who have not done well' date=' this is what is going to happen. You cannot expect one or two bowlers to do it for you every time. There is no guarantee that new one will do well, but at least trying and failing is better than, not trying and failing. We can play 5th bowler too, but if 2 of them are not doing anything then those places are actually waste. You need at least 3 bowlers doing as well as BK and Ishant did in first 2 tests. Here none of them really did well.[/quote'] How would you do well with strange field positions, standing way back behind the stumps, leg side negative line, left arm darter against left batsmen, one over bowling rotation spells? What do you mean by bowler not in form? If you can't grab chances created by them, they will mostly look not in form... The plain and simple explanation is that MOFO Dhobi, went defensive the moment he won a test...in the process he's now about to get his **** kicked by a bunch of struggling players in the England team...

[Straight Drive]

He bowled well against SL and that time I knew' date=' he is not a bad option by any means. He was giving good revs, more than Herath and was handy against lefties.[/quote'] I will take those words as i have not watched more than 3 sessions of this test series and just one session in England-SRL test series. :two_thumbs_up:

[rkt.india]

you increase the probability by adding one more bowler. Don't think it is no different from gambling with 6th batsman except batsman can get out for a duck and he will be totally useless for the rest of the match. But bowler can bowl a bad ball and still can come back in the match.

Our bowlers so inconsistent and unreliable than you don't know playing 5th bowler will help or not. You need those 4 to do well too. You just can ope and play a 5th bowler if they don't do well, 5th will do. I am in favor of 5th bowler but first get the selection right at least for first 4. Playing Shami in this test was risky in first instance who was completely off color last 2 tests and then Jaddu who has not done much with the ball was another bound to fail selection.