Can you select Ashwin purely as a bowler or purely as a batsman?

[BeautifulGame]

Exactly' date=' and that's the reason you don't look at averages. Swann won the match in Adelaide with a very good bowling performance and was good throughout the series. The definition of "doing well" for spinners in Australia starts with being economical.[/quote'] Doing well doesn't equate to match winner As for Adelaide they won it by Anderson first innings 3 for 2 spell .He was good in the Ashes but as the support bowler

[BeautifulGame]

:) Anyone who saw that series know that but ashwin did now had those moments even when we did well with ball up front

Really? Are u saying that Eng won Adelaide because of Swann bowling ? When did our bowlers even put Aus 3/2 or put 600 run target for Ashwin to defend with 2 days ? What exactly r the moments Ashwin had compared with Swann in Adelaide

[Old guy]

Really? Are u saying that Eng won Adelaide because of Swann bowling ?

He played part in key moments They won because of team performance but when he was asked to contribute he did

[BeautifulGame]

He played part in key moments They won because of team performance but when he was asked to contribute he did

When did our bowlers ever put Aus 3/2 or put 600 run target for Ashwin to defend with 2 days ? What exactly r the moments Ashwin had in Aus can be compared with Swann in Adelaide

[Old guy]

When did our bowlers ever put Aus 3/2 or put 600 run target for Ashwin to defend with 2 days ? What exactly r the moments Ashwin had compared with Swann in Adelaide

In almost every game umesh and zakk got early wickets In fact they made partnership after 3 down consistently They were 20 for 2 atlest 2 times and lost 3 quick wickets too many times :winky:

[Old guy]

We lost matches in middle overs with Clarke playing great innings and ashwin and everyone being useless after new ball got old No one can dispute that and same story again in odis last year ...

[Crookbond]

Doing well doesn't equate to match winner As for Adelaide they won it by Anderson first innings 3 for 2 spell .He was good in the Ashes but as the support bowler

The original RKT question talks about "doing well" in Australia. In Adelaide, he got Hussey Australia's top scorer in the 1st innings. In the 2nd innings, he picked up 5 wickets. A spinner can't be the main bowler in Australia - the very fact that he was good as a support bowler meant he "did well" (or more than enough).

[Crookbond]

When did our bowlers ever put Aus 3/2 or put 600 run target for Ashwin to defend with 2 days ? What exactly r the moments Ashwin had in Aus can be compared with Swann in Adelaide

Are you serious? The batting was worse but numerous occasions the bowlers put us ahead only to lose the advantage 1st Test 27/4 2nd innings 2nd Test 37/3 1st innings 4th Test 84/3 1st innings, 40/3 2nd innings Perth Test was the ONLY Test match were the opening partnership added 214 and after that they collapsed.

[BeautifulGame]

In almost every game umesh and zakk got early wickets In fact they made partnership after 3 down consistently They were 20 for 2 atlest 2 times and lost 3 quick wickets too many times :winky:

We were bowling with a first inn score of 190 in Sydney on a flat wkt.What exactly u expect our bowlers to do with a score like that? And Ashwin was the on that reduced Aussies to such score in Adelaide but our fast bowlers (Umesh and Ishant) failed to back him up And he was bowling very well in that first test till the drop which turned the series He didn't even play in Perth I think

[Old guy]

We were bowling with a first inn score of 190 in Sydney on a flat wkt.What exactly u expect our bowlers to do with a score like that? And Ashwin was the on that reduced Aussies to such score in Adelaide but our fast bowlers (Umesh and Ishant) failed to back him up And he was bowling very well in that first test till the drop which turned the series He didn't even play in Perth I think

Dude we expect spinner to chip in few wickets and we will play on same tracks with same ball with same conditions ...if he cannot contribute then he is not good enough it's a simple as that anything else is excuse Hearth destroyed them on same conditions and I do not even want that few wickets will help 2 per inning will be perfect

[Old guy]

Are you serious? The batting was worse but numerous occasions the bowlers put us ahead only to lose the advantage 1st Test 27/4 2nd innings 2nd Test 37/3 1st innings 4th Test 84/3 1st innings, 40/3 2nd innings Perth Test was the ONLY Test match were the opening partnership added 214 and after that they collapsed.

Thanks I was copy pasting these on iPad :cantstop:

[BeautifulGame]

Are you serious? The batting was worse but numerous occasions the bowlers put us ahead only to lose the advantage 1st Test 27/4 2nd innings 2nd Test 37/3 1st innings 4th Test 84/3 1st innings, 40/3 2nd innings Perth Test was the ONLY Test match were the opening partnership added 214 and after that they collapsed.

Only first test it was pressure .And Ashwin was decent and if had taken our catches we would have won 2nd test it was defending a score of 190 in flat wkt. 4th test it was Ashwin who reduced their top orders but our seamers failed to back him.

[Old guy]

Yeah and last match was only one which was rough and offered lot of turn Same thing will happen again on same pitches as he has shown no improvement and more we discuss more it sounds like excuses I like this guy he is very smart but he has not done anything away from home even in odis...there is definitely a problem and unless he performs it's valid point ..

[Crookbond]

Only first test it was pressure .And Ashwin was decent and if had taken our catches we would have won 2nd test it was defending a score of 190 in flat wkt. 4th test it was Ashwin who reduced their top orders but our seamers failed to back him.

You were talking about Swann not "doing well". You can't have these hazaar filters to tell us that Ashwin will perform well if these criteria are matched. Ashwin had 3 Test matches and 6 innings and if needed he could've stepped in at least one game but he didn't. There's really no excuse there.

[BeautifulGame]

You were talking about Swann not "doing well". You can't have these hazaar filters to tell us that Ashwin will perform well if these criteria are matched. Ashen had 3 Test matches and 6 innings and if needed he could've stepped in at least one game but he didn't. There's really no excuse there.

I mentioned Swann not being match winner in that Ashes but being a support bowler who did well. And these were not filters rather match situations which is mostly determines player performance Yes Ashwin poor over the course if the series .But he started of well so did Zak and Umesh .Until our collapse in in 2nd inn in Melbourne and then that 190 in Sydney.Then our bowlers head started dropping.Not just Ashwin Umesh was even worse in Sydney and Adelaide iirc That's what happens when batsmen can't hold bat and we play with 3 man attack @Shabby Anyway I agree Ashwin has been much worse overseas so needs big performance to hold on.Only problem is whether Jadeja or Karn or better spinners And we don't have a herath who is much better than Ashwin but also has tons of experience

[Old guy]

I mentioned Swann not being match winner in that Ashes but being a support bowler . And these were not filters rather match situations which is mostly determines player performance Yes Ashwin poor over the course if the series .But he started of well so did Zak and Umesh .Until our collapse in in 2nd inn in Melbourne and then that 190 in Sydney.Then our bowlers head started dropping.Not just Ashwin Umesh was even worse in Sydney and Adelaide iirc That's what happens when batsmen can't hold bat and we play with 3 man attack @Shabby Anyway I agree Ashwin has been much worse overseas so needs big performance to hold on.

I am some one who wants him as captain in long run and want him to play here as he is best option in squad so I hope u get my point of view .. Also I never said ashwin has to be match winner or Swann was match winner he asked who did well recently and Swann and hearth and they have done well in other places and odis too so you can draw parallels ...our spin has been our weakness away from home in every format with jadeja being decent here and there

[vvvslaxman]

Horses for the courses work for us. Don't have to go in with the best XI.

[Crookbond]

^ The only point was Ashwin was poor overall - nothing more. The other point was Swann did the job that a spinner can do in Australia and if Ashwin does that (based on certain match situations of course) he'd have done his job.

[rkt.india]

Ashwin and Jadeja both dont have guile needed as a spinner. Likes of Vettori, Swann, Herath, even if the dont get turn, they deceive batsmen by subtle variations in pace and flight.

[gattaca]

Ashwin and Jadeja both dont have guile needed as a spinner. Likes of Vettori' date=' Swann, Herath, even if the dont get turn, they deceive batsmen by subtle variations in pace and flight.[/quote'] The problem is with dhoni and BCCI as well they roll out dust bowls to opposition. But kumble and harbajhan played on wickets that turned on 4 and 5 th day not like ashwin and jaddu who are completely dependent on wicket to bowl. Ohja was decent but he is not even in contention for a test spot.