10 years of MS Dhoni - Debate thread

[rkt.india]

M Both Dravid and Gavaskar are mediocre ODI players. Gavaskar was literally poor.

Yeah, mediocre ODI players score 10,.000 runs. I will take sch mediocre players any day of the week. Hope, we produce more such mediocre ODI players who can score 10,000 runs in ODIs in their career.

[rkt.india]

Dhoni can't be above grade 2 in any case. Kumble and Kapil decidedly have been much better than Dhoni as cricketer. Also Kohli as of now can't be talked in same league as Kapil and Kumble. He may be on his way though. In overall package I would rate Yuvi slightly ahead of Dhoni. Whatever are counted as success of Dhoni, Yuvi triumphed Dhoni on those very tournaments or series. 1. Dhoni helped India win ODI series in Pakistan in 2006. Agree that was terrific and we were chasing scored around 300 with such ease. Dhoni was very good. But then Yuvi was even better. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/pakvind/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=2693;type=series 2. Dhoni captained India to W T20. Yes, he happened to be there as captain. Otherwise it was Yuvraj who was MOTT. Can you forget those six sixes or assault on Australia. 3. Dhoni captained Indian to WC 11. Yes, he again happened to be there as captain, just Shastri has managed to be in commentary box for all the recent successes of India. But it was Yuvraj who was real hero and man of the match. No way Dhoni can be ahead of Yuvi. On the other side, Yuvi didn't conspire to Srini to sabotage Indian cricket and didn't lie in front of judicial panel to save a crook.

Yuvraj will be lower because he was poor in test cricket. Dhoni will be ahead because of his alround capabilities in all forms, not just as a batsman. SRT Sunny G Kapil Dev Dravid Kumble VVS Viru Dhoni Bhajji Yuvraj

[diga]

Yeah' date=' mediocre ODI players score 10,.000 runs. I will take sch mediocre players any day of the week. Hope, we produce more such mediocre ODI players who can score 10,000 runs in ODIs in their career.[/quote'] Even Ganguly has 10000 ODI runs and that too at the top of the order

[rkt.india]

Even Ganguly has 10000 ODI runs and that too at the top of the order

Ganguly is also one of he best ODI batmen India produced. You dont score 10,000 runs by being mediocre in any form of the game.

[Marut]

Me too. Infact I have put test cricket as a preference over LOI's because I myself believe test is the real deal. If we judge by using all formats equally, only SRT will be in Grade 1. Both Dravid and Gavaskar are mediocre ODI players. Gavaskar was literally poor.

Neither of them were mediocre ODI players. Dravid would be within top seven-eight ODI players from India - and that is not mediocrity. You don't amass 10,000 ODI runs, with 12 hundreds, and get involved in two triple hundred ODI partnerships (the only player to have this ODI record), one of the fastest ODI 50s by an India batsman (50 off 22) etc as a mediocre player in any format of the game. Dravid was a complete team man - he played what exactly the team benefitted from. He was capable of playing an extraordinary ODI innings, as well playing a characteristic anchor role which allowed the batsmen at the other end to take calculated risks - most ODI batsmen are not capable of playing the dual role. Gavaskar wasn't exactly a noob ODI player for his times - ODI openers of his day played a characteristic anchor innings - if you compare Gavaskar and Greenidge (who is considered an aggressive player), you won't see much different in their strike rates. There is not much difference between Gavaskar and aggressive players like Boon. Even Srikkanth, considered a belligerent ODI opener had a strike rate of only 72, and it was damn good for an opener in the 80s.

[Raghav_12]

Yuvraj will be lower because he was poor in test cricket. Dhoni will be ahead because of his alround capabilities in all forms, not just as a batsman. SRT Sunny G Kapil Dev Dravid Kumble VVS Viru Dhoni Bhajji Yuvraj

My point was that Yuvraj is ahead on very same parameters which are used to build Dhoni's case. I myself don't rate world T 20 success as very high and I would any day take a test series win in Australia or SA (in a series of 4 tests) over world cup victory, so I don't rate Yuvraj very high either. I would say both VVS and Sehwag daylight ahead of Dhoni and Yuvraj. But between Dhoni and Yuvraj, I see Yuvraj a clear winner.

[rkt.india]

My point was that Yuvraj is ahead on very same parameters which are used to build Dhoni's case. I myself don't rate world T 20 success as very high and I would any day take a test series win in Australia or SA (in a series of 4 tests) over world cup victory, so I don't rate Yuvraj very high either. I would say both VVS and Sehwag daylight ahead of Dhoni and Yuvraj. But between Dhoni and Yuvraj, I see Yuvraj a clear winner.

Yes, Yuvraj is the biggest match winner on his day, but he lacked consistency. He challenges Dhoni only because of his WC performances. Dhoni trounces Yuvraj there. He is arguably the best wk/bat we have ever had in all forms of the game and he makes an ODI side on his batting alone. His test record may not be as good overseas, but still better than Yuvraj being a specialist batsman.

[bulbul]

My point was that Yuvraj is ahead on very same parameters which are used to build Dhoni's case. I myself don't rate world T 20 success as very high and I would any day take a test series win in Australia or SA (in a series of 4 tests) over world cup victory, so I don't rate Yuvraj very high either. I would say both VVS and Sehwag daylight ahead of Dhoni and Yuvraj. But between Dhoni and Yuvraj, I see Yuvraj a clear winner.

Dhoni is better than Yuvi overall.We cannot take the Dhoni fanatics parameters for greatness otherwise what difference between them & us :winky:

[wanted_desi]

ATG in ODI forsure, wish he was better captain/WC in tests. We had such a good team going on toward test, and with Dhoni it turned into opposite direction.

[Shivaji bhonsle]

Dhoni as a cricketer was wonderful to watch but as a captain, he is a pain in the ass.

[SLICKR392]

Yeah' date=' mediocre ODI players score 10,.000 runs. I will take sch mediocre players any day of the week. Hope, we produce more such mediocre ODI players who can score 10,000 runs in ODIs in their career.[/quote'] LOL! Pwned

[Austin 3:!6]

Yeah' date=' mediocre ODI players score 10,.000 runs. I will take sch mediocre players any day of the week. Hope, we produce more such mediocre ODI players who can score 10,000 runs in ODIs in their career.[/quote'] At an avg of 39 and strike rate of 74, he is no more than an avg ODI player. His 10k run is due to longevity (344 ODI matches)

[Raghav_12]

At an avg of 39 and strike rate of 74' date=' he is no more than an avg ODI player. His 10k run is due to longevity (344 ODI matches)[/quote'] You don't know how much ODI's have changed. Avg of 39 is damn good for the duration which Dravid played ODI's.

[Marut]

At an avg of 39 and strike rate of 74' date=' he is no more than an avg ODI player. His 10k run is due to longevity (344 ODI matches)[/quote'] Avg ODI player does not last 344 matches. And Dravid averaged 42 in overseas ODI matches - even higher than Tendulkar who averaged 37!! In ODI matches played outside India, Dravid's average is third on our all time list, next to Dhoni and Kohli - and is higher than Sachin, Yuvi, Ganguly et al who flourished mainly at home. Dravid is also ahead of most of our ODI stars (that includes Sachin who averages only 33), in batting average (39) outside the SC. Which explains why Dravid was so important in ODIs when we toured.

[Marut]

You don't know how much ODI's have changed. Avg of 39 is damn good for the duration which Dravid played ODI's.

Ditto. Also take a look at Dravid's ODI records outside India, and outside the SC. He was not a ODI home bully!

[Marut]

Dhoni ahead of Yuvi any day any time in ODIs. Dhoni's overseas records in ODIs are also way ahead of Yuvraj. Yuvi was a big match player some times, but lacked consistency like Dhoni.

[Marut]

Any one who claims that Dravid was average in ODIs must take a look at Indian ODI records in Oz and SA.

[Austin 3:!6]

Personally I like Dravid and he was a fantastic batsman no doubt. I have followed Dravid's career right from his debut. A supremely talented test batsman but due to his low strike rate issue never a force in ODI's (in late 90's). The situation became so worse in 1998 that he was dropped from the ODI team. Even after a successful 99 WC, he was an underachiever in ODI's. Ganguly had to play him as a Wicket keeper batsman from 2001 to justify his selection. That made a turnaround though and he became a better ODI bat with much better strike rate. Dravid of 2001 - 06 was a good (not great) ODI batsman. Dravid of 1996 - 00 was rather a poor one I am afraid. Lets face if I was opposition captain playing an ODI against India at that time, I would be worried about Sachin, Ganguly, Sehwag, Yuvraj. A sight of Rahul Dravid in ODI's never a scary one.

[Crookbond]

Personally I like Dravid and he was a fantastic batsman no doubt. I have followed Dravid's career right from his debut. A supremely talented test batsman but due to his low strike rate issue never a force in ODI's (in late 90's). The situation became so worse in 1998 that he was dropped from the ODI team. Even after a successful 99 WC, he was an underachiever in ODI's. Ganguly had to play him as a Wicket keeper batsman from 2001 to justify his selection. That made a turnaround though and he became a better ODI bat with much better strike rate. Dravid of 2001 - 06 was a good (not great) ODI batsman. Dravid of 1996 - 00 was rather a poor one I am afraid. Lets face if I was opposition captain playing an ODI against India at that time, I would be worried about Sachin, Ganguly, Sehwag, Yuvraj. A sight of Rahul Dravid in ODI's never a scary one.

You must be kidding me. Ganguly REQUESTED Dravid to keep wickets for the team's interest and he did that. His place in the squad was well cemented w/o keeping wickets as well. Lets not cook up stories.

[CG]

Personally I like Dravid and he was a fantastic batsman no doubt. I have followed Dravid's career right from his debut. A supremely talented test batsman but due to his low strike rate issue never a force in ODI's (in late 90's). The situation became so worse in 1998 that he was dropped from the ODI team. Even after a successful 99 WC, he was an underachiever in ODI's. Ganguly had to play him as a Wicket keeper batsman from 2001 to justify his selection. That made a turnaround though and he became a better ODI bat with much better strike rate. Dravid of 2001 - 06 was a good (not great) ODI batsman. Dravid of 1996 - 00 was rather a poor one I am afraid. Lets face if I was opposition captain playing an ODI against India at that time, I would be worried about Sachin, Ganguly, Sehwag, Yuvraj. A sight of Rahul Dravid in ODI's never a scary one.

What rubbish dravid played his role perfectly and he improved substantially to be a finisher with good strike rate or a anchor the innings.He was made keeper to play extra batsman really do u guys follow cricket or what.