BBC Greatest ODI XI

[HippoSucks]

Gayle should be no where near an ODI All-Star team.

[Marut]

Gayle should be no where near an ODI All-Star team.

Good for a third or fourth ODI XI perhaps. Can't see him ahead of Gilchrist, Jayasuriya, Sehwag, Hayden, Sachin, Greenidge, Haynes, Gibbs or even Amla as an opener. Even Boon and Anwar were probably better than Gayle.

[sweetaskandy]

Because he is an Indian.

Nope. That is not the reason at all. I made 2 statements - 1, that most experts don't pick Dev. I linked to about 20 selected teams for ODIs - I think 1 picked him. That is evident. The second was that he was not particularly special as a ODI cricketer. He was a good bowler and a useful slogger. He averages under 20 against 3 of the proper teams he played (Lanka, Pak, SA and under 21 v Aus) and his record as it is as a batsman is Afridi like. As for bowling, I have said he was a good bowler. But you are making his ER seem like something epic. In his time 230-250 was a good score - most good bowlers were going at 3.5-4 back then. Evidenced by this: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/wi/content/records/283266.html This is why people (minus you lot!) dont go gaga over him. We saw him play you know. This is why folks have picked either a wildly superior batsman in Kallis who can bowl good 5th bowler stuff or a far superior genuinely fast bowler like Khan who can score more runs with the bat. The panel selections are not my doing - these folks picked independently and most left Dev on the bench. So don't play the "anti India" card - most people dont care that much about you as to be anti India. People - ex-pros, experts, seasoned watchers, writers - picked teams they felt were best. He usually doesnt make it. Pick him all you want. I'm happy for you but don't get all upset like a child when most people dont pick the guy.

[Marut]

Nope. That is not the reason at all. I made 2 statements - 1, that most experts don't pick Dev. I linked to about 20 selected teams for ODIs - I think 1 picked him. That is evident. The second was that he was not particularly special as a ODI cricketer. He was a good bowler and a useful slogger. He averages under 20 against 3 of the proper teams he played (Lanka, Pak, SA and under 21 v Aus) and his record as it is as a batsman is Afridi like. As for bowling, I have said he was a good bowler. But you are making his ER seem like something epic. In his time 230-250 was a good score - most good bowlers were going at 3.5-4 back then. Evidenced by this: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/wi/content/records/283266.html This is why people (minus you lot!) dont go gaga over him. We saw him play you know. This is why folks have picked either a wildly superior batsman in Kallis who can bowl good 5th bowler stuff or a far superior genuinely fast bowler like Khan who can score more runs with the bat. The panel selections are not my doing - these folks picked independently and most left Dev on the bench. So don't play the "anti India" card - most people dont care that much about you as to be anti India. People - ex-pros, experts, seasoned watchers, writers - picked teams they felt were best. He usually doesnt make it. Pick him all you want. I'm happy for you but don't get all upset like a child when most people dont pick the guy.

Anti India card is very much in vogue. You want a sample? http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cricket/29056439 The formation of the big three (and the informal control even before that) has obviously made India, BCCI and naturally the Indian players "enemies" of other nations. Did you follow cricket just before the big three was formed and how much resistance it faced from fans of every nation? Don't be so naïve. Coming to the topic. See, Kapil was ranked #1 in ODI rankings for most of the 80s, this is the same rankings that list ABDevilliers at #1 in the batsman's list currently. If this much proof is not enough to convince you, perhaps we can agree to disagree. No all rounder at any time hit the peak Kapil did (632 rating points) and nobody stayed at that level for the duration Kapil did. How can a player defined by you as "not a particular useful ODI all rounder" maintain a #1 ODI ranking for seven years straight in the era of fierce competition for this ranking? This is Lahori logic, err, Kandy logic at its best. Regarding economy rates and strike rates, note that those above him in the list mostly bowled on highly bowling friendly wickets and not on the dustbowls/flatbeds of India like Kapil. And note that unlike Aus, WI and English bowlers in that list, Kapil had no good support bowlers. If you know a whit about cricket, you will know how much destruction a pair of great bowlers do together, compared to a lone wolf like Kapil. This will be my last post on this thread as I think I have made enough points. I agree that the choice of Kapil as the best ODI all rounder ever is debatable, but I have no time to argue with novices who claim "he was not particularly special as a ODI cricketer" and get exposed of either zero knowledge of cricket or their hatred/contempt for Kapil.

[sweetaskandy]

Rather the case is that you are speaking from a POV of nationalism. I state he was a good ODI bowler. AR is a different category. I dont know your age but I saw these guys play. The weight of world opinion as evidenced is against you. I suppose we are all novices/anti India. :giggle:

[sweetaskandy]

Also dont misquote me. I said "no particularly SPECIAL". Not "not particularly useful". He was very useful. He was not special. That is a world apart and you tried to fabricate a narrative and attribute it to me as my statement. I suppose your pants are now on fire. :hysterical:

[Scarves]

As an average all rounder' date=' be my guest. Nowhere near it in a best XI/World XI.:hysterical:[/quote'] He is my XI so Blah to you all. PLus Chris Carins cheated and I could not of thought of anyone else down the order. Ehh could have had Hussey then a Bevan actually. Heck maybe James Faulkner....ewww

[MCGGG]

I would like to add Hadlee to my team at the expense of Lee, he averaged over 20 with the bat and low 20s with the ball, can't believe I overlooked him. Here's my side. Gilchrist Tendulka Richards Ponting ABD Bevan Flintoff Hadlee Khan Warne Akram Super strong in every area, looks very well balanced IMO.

[brendan07]

He is my XI so Blah to you all. PLus Chris Carins cheated and I could not of thought of anyone else down the order. Ehh could have had Hussey then a Bevan actually. Heck maybe James Faulkner....ewww

Have you only watched ODI's for 5-10 years? Plenty of all rounders. Ian Botham, Kapil Dev, Jaques Kallis (obvious one), Lance Kluesener (purely as a WC selection), Imran Khan, etc. These are all better than Chris Harris at least. At least a Hussey or a Bevan is somewhat reasonable...picking a bloke who bowls dibbly dobbly 90kmph slow rubbish who bats a bit is hardly a great selection.

[Scarves]

Have you only watched ODI's for 5-10 years? Plenty of all rounders. Ian Botham' date=' Kapil Dev, Jaques Kallis (obvious one), Lance Kluesener (purely as a WC selection), Imran Khan, etc. These are all better than Chris Harris at least. At least a Hussey or a Bevan is somewhat reasonable...picking a bloke who bowls dibbly dobbly 90kmph slow rubbish who bats a bit is hardly a great selection.[/quote'] Never got to see Beefy, Kapil, Imran, Jones or Hadlee. Kluesner just had 99 going for him. Kallis is not a lower order player. CHRIS HARRIS IS AMAZING!!! But eh I couldn't think of anyone else at that time. So would have Hussey with Bevo.

[brendan07]

Never got to see Beefy, Kapil, Imran, Jones or Hadlee. Kluesner just had 99 going for him. Kallis is not a lower order player. CHRIS HARRIS IS AMAZING!!! But eh I couldn't think of anyone else at that time. So would have Hussey with Bevo.

Harris is ordinary and he is even more average at WC's. You can always change the order and slot Kallis in at 4 or 5 anyway. Flintoff would be a slightly better choice in recent times. Klusener's 99 WC was better than Harris has ever produced period. I suggest you get your hands on some older ODI's either online or through other means. Watch these players, then change your views. Limiting yourself to the last 10 years is a bit tough to come up with a realistic team.

[brendan07]

I'll go with the side I have settled on, and honestly there are a couple I have flipped, turned, etc 1. Gilchrist 2. Tendulkar 3. Viv Richards 4. Jaques Kallis 5. Ricky Ponting 6. Andy Flower (yes thats my one surprise) 7. Imran Khan 8. Shane Warne 9. Brett Lee 10. Malcolm Marshall 11. Glenn McGrath 12th Wasim Akram

[Ultimate_Game]

People who undermine Kapil have no idea how great a player he was. Case in point check out this scorecard where Kapil flayed 72 off 38 deliveries against WI in WI and that too against a bowling attack featuring likes of Michael Holding, Malcolm Marshall, Andy Roberts and Winston Davis. http://www.espncricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/engine/match/64209.html If Kapil had been a tad selfish he could've easily averaged 40+ with the bat in Tests and 35+ in odis. The guy was a natural and had more talent with the bat than quite a few specialist batsmen in those days. I think Kapil gets penalised for his "team first" approach where he went after the bowling from the first ball, which is exactly what he should've done batting at 7. Folks may laugh at his innings of 175* claiming it came against minnows, but that Zim team was a pretty good one and had beaten Aus in the same tourney. They had more than decent pace bowling and people forget Kapil scored those runs in a must win game when India were 17/5 and soon 29/6 on a pretty juicy pitch.

[Sooda]

Very few Dhoni picks, I would pick him over Gilly even if Gilly was the better keeper- Dhoni is one of the best ever (maybe even THE best) coming in the lower middle order. If this is not specifically a WC XI... Jayasuriya, Tendulkar, Kallis, Lara, V Richards, ABDV, MSD c, Akram, Warne, Garner, Ambrose ...would be my team I do think Kapil is a strong contender for an ODI XI, Lara too for all the superior stats of people who cam a bit later like Ponting, Lara was just more of a genius You need a Kallis to anchor the innings can not have it packed with strokeplayers.

[putrevus]

People who undermine Kapil have no idea how great a player he was. Case in point check out this scorecard where Kapil flayed 72 off 38 deliveries against WI in WI and that too against a bowling attack featuring likes of Michael Holding, Malcolm Marshall, Andy Roberts and Winston Davis. http://www.espncricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/engine/match/64209.html If Kapil had been a tad selfish he could've easily averaged 40+ with the bat in Tests and 35+ in odis. The guy was a natural and had more talent with the bat than quite a few specialist batsmen in those days. I think Kapil gets penalised for his "team first" approach where he went after the bowling from the first ball, which is exactly what he should've done batting at 7. Folks may laugh at his innings of 175* claiming it came against minnows, but that Zim team was a pretty good one and had beaten Aus in the same tourney. They had more than decent pace bowling and people forget Kapil scored those runs in a must win game when India were 17/5 and soon 29/6 on a pretty juicy pitch.

I think 29/6 was in tests against SA in 1992 when he scored his last and best hundred with one hand against Allan Donald when he was running thru Indian batting order. People say IK was better allrounder than him but I dare anyone show innings like what Kapil Dev played in Port Elizabeth then and also against mighty WI bowlers as you said.

[Scarves]

Harris is ordinary and he is even more average at WC's. You can always change the order and slot Kallis in at 4 or 5 anyway. Flintoff would be a slightly better choice in recent times. Klusener's 99 WC was better than Harris has ever produced period. I suggest you get your hands on some older ODI's either online or through other means. Watch these players, then change your views. Limiting yourself to the last 10 years is a bit tough to come up with a realistic team.

Yeah I dug up old stuff but it is not the same as seeing games in person.

[brendan07]

Yeah I dug up old stuff but it is not the same as seeing games in person.

I agree but you can vaguely make a call on some players. I mean I only saw the back end of Viv's career and I was very young at the time. He is in my side. Al rounders are tricky but read and watch some of Kapil Dev/Imran Khan/Ian Botham's performances. Harris is half decent but thats all he was ever. My attempt at my best side is a few posts up. Mind you I have tossed and turned over batting positions. Bowlers I have purely ranked 1-3 with Warne being the spinner. 2 all rounders, Kallis playing as a bat, bowling as a bonus.

[Muloghonto]

A few issues: 1. Kapil should be an automatic in any odi lineup. He essentially was a mcgrath type miserly bowler in odis ( better econ rate than imran, botham, marshall,etc) while being an afridi type impact player with the bat. Take out mcgrath and kallis, replace them with kapil at #7. 2. Waqar and donald were way,way better wicket taking bowlers than lee. 3. Have both murali and warne in the team. My xi: Sachin ???? Viv Lara Abdv Dhoni Kapil Wasim Warne Waqar/donald Murali I dunno who would open with sachin: gillchrist, amla,greenidge,haynes,mark waugh all make compelling cases. Based on what I saw in 92 world cup, i'd consider opening with lara and including kohli in his spot at #4. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[rkt.india]

SRT Gilly Ponting Viv ABDV Dhoni Klusener Shane Warne Brett Lee Shane Bond Glenn McGrath

[Lord]

Sachin Jayasuriya Viv ABDV Bevan Dhoni Kapil Wasim Warne Garner Murali