BBC Greatest ODI XI

[Muloghonto]

McGrath was not just a containment bowler. He was mixture of aggression and containment. He has an of SR 34. Ambrose has an SR of 41. Both have ER under 4' date=' Ambrose marginally better about 0.40, also Ambrose retired 8-9 years before McGrath, so, McGrath also played in a high scoring era in 2000s where 300 did not remain a safe total anymore. McGrath has better average. Kapil had an SR of 47. You can compare Ambrose and McGrath but not Kapil Dev. Kapil should be compared to alrounder likes Imran, Botham, etc.[/quote'] McGrath was a containment bowler who got more wickets because he played in an era where batsmen felt the need to take way more risks and slog to get to 300+ scores. A 0.4 differential in econ rate is huge for under 4 rpo. It's basically 10% before yet, which is a lot. Ambrose handily outperformed McGrath from 95 to 2004 in economic bowling. Kabul being an allrounder doesn't take away from the fact that he's McGrath class as an odi bowler. It's just leave kallis being an allrounder doesn't take away from him being in dravids class as a batsman.

[Gambit]

McGrath a containtment bowler? LOL. Look no further than WCs where he destroyed WI, RSA, and Indian lineups in crucial games.

[rkt.india]

McGrath was a containment bowler who got more wickets because he played in an era where batsmen felt the need to take way more risks and slog to get to 300+ scores. A 0.4 differential in econ rate is huge for under 4 rpo. It's basically 10% before yet' date=' which is a lot. Ambrose handily outperformed McGrath from 95 to 2004 in economic bowling. Kabul being an allrounder doesn't take away from the fact that he's McGrath class as an odi bowler. It's just leave kallis being an allrounder doesn't take away from him being in dravids class as a batsman.[/quote'] You are talking about that 0.4 difference but underplaying difference in s average and SR. You are saying they are high because McGrath played in an era where batsmen took more risks. It means batsmen were more aggressive. If that is the case, than ER would be higher even for Ambrose if he had played in that era. Ambrose retired in 2000, so, he did not play in the are of 300s. They played 6 years together and in those 6 years, Ambrose had 77 wickets in 77 matches at an average of 30, ER of 3.48, which shows he declined in that period. While McGrath averaged 23 in the same period, but his average and ER both got better with age even if batsmen were more aggressive, more high scores were scored, still his average and ER both got better even when he aged. It also tells you that Mcgrath was consistent throughout his career despite playing in both eras of 90s and 2000s.

[rkt.india]

McGrath a containtment bowler? LOL. Look no further than WCs where destroyed WI' date=' RSA, and Indian lineups in crucial games.[/quote'] :two_thumbs_up: McGrath was the highest wicket taker in 2 WCs if I am correct.

[Gambit]

:two_thumbs_up: McGrath was the highest wicket taker in 2 WCs if I am correct.

I think he was the highest wicket taker in 2007 but high up there in other world cups. And a fast bowler with an SR of 34 simply cannot be be described as a containment bowler.:hysterical:

[rkt.india]

I think he was the highest wicket taker in 2007 but high up there in other world cups. And a fast bowler with an SR of 34 simply cannot be be described as a containment bowler.:hysterical:

yeah 3rd highest in 2003 with 21 wickets, 23 Vaas, 22 Brett Lee. 3rd highest in 1999 as well 18 wickets, Jyoff Alott and Warne topped with 20.

[Sooda]

Dhoni a better bat than Gilly? Lol.

That is debatable, but what I am saying is that he is a better no 6 than Gilly is an opener. Sanath possibly Ganguly are better candidates to open with Sachin

[Sooda]

Just because a bowler bowls impeccable line and length, does not make them 'containment' !

[Sooda]

That means nothing. They won as a team' date=' not individuals. Just coz your team won a few world cups doesnt mean each individual player is better than individuals in other teams. Lara never won a world cup, hes still better than any aussie batsman alive. The dutch have never won a soccer world cup, italians have won 3/4. [b']Yet the top six dutch players ever are way,way better than the top six italians ever. I am sorry but except for warne and mcgrath and maybe gillchrist/mew as opening partners for sachin, no other aussie deserves to be in an atg xi for odis. And my reason for excluding mcgratj has been stated: in odis, kapil was just as good a bowler but way better bat and fielder. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

Off topic :D but not way way better! You say that because it is always assumed attacking players are of more worth/better than defenders. If you factor in guys like Baresi, Maldini and Buffon it could be a close run thing. But do agree with your overall point

[Jimmy Cliff]

All Time ODI XI SRT Lara Jones IVAR© Bevan MSD+ Flintoff Akram Saqlain Garner McGrath All Time WC XI SRT Gilchrist+ IVAR Crowe© SR Waugh Symonds Klusener Gilmour Warne Holding McGrath

[Raghav_12]

All Time ODI XI SRT Lara Jones IVAR© Bevan MSD+ Flintoff Akram Saqlain Garner McGrath All Time WC XI SRT Gilchrist+ IVAR Crowe© SR Waugh Symonds Klusener Gilmour Warne Holding McGrath

who is this guy? I know couple of possible Jones but none of them can be suggested without being laughed at.

[rkt.india]

who is this guy? I know couple of possible Jones but none of them can be suggested without being laughed at.

must be Dean Jones who also was one of the best ODI player of his time.

[Raghav_12]

Kapil is good case but not a sure one like Mulo is suggesting. My attempt Sachin Gilly Lara IVA ABDV Bevan Klusener Kapil Wasim Warne Mcgrath

[amiret]

4 aussies . 3 west indians . And no Rohit Sharma ? This list can't be taken seriously

[Raghav_12]

must be Dean Jones who also was one of the best ODI player of his time.

Oh yes.. that is not a bad shout then.

[MCGGG]

who is this guy? I know couple of possible Jones but none of them can be suggested without being laughed at.

Dean Jones, very good batsman who was ahead of his time, a true showman, used to like stirring Ambrose up.

[Sooda]

Kapil is good case but not a sure one like Mulo is suggesting. My attempt Sachin Gilly Lara IVA ABDV Bevan Klusener Kapil Wasim Warne Mcgrath

Do you think Hussey > Bevan ? Better at clearing the ropes and can acumulate the ones and twos almost as well... I also think MSD> Both.. :hmmm:

[Marut]

Rather the case is that you are speaking from a POV of nationalism. I state he was a good ODI bowler. AR is a different category. I dont know your age but I saw these guys play. The weight of world opinion as evidenced is against you. I suppose we are all novices/anti India. :giggle:

Not just that. People are mixing test match records with ODIs. In ODIs, Kapil averaged nearly the same as Imran with a better economy; and was a much more impactful batsman. So when people pick Imran in ODIs, they are using his better test match bowling record as their criterion. The same logic they use to pick Kallis over say Bevan. Kapil did not enjoy as much support at the other end, like Imran or Botham. Imran had support bowlers like Sarfraz Nawaz, Akram at various stages of his career. Kapil had to do with bowlers like Binny, Madanlal, Chetan Sharma, Manoj Prabhakar etc for most of his career. I suppose Imran too would have struggled with his bowling, with support bowlers like these at the other end. Imran was selective at playing games. He always kept himself fresh by skipping unimportant matches. He would also underbowl in many ODI matches. Kapil, OTOH never skipped any matches, and rarely failed to bowl his quota of overs. I dont' think Imran supporters account for these factors when comparing Kapil with Imran. You saw these guys play and so did I. But what is the use of seeing matches without taking into account all the factors that go into a match? You do not seem to appreciate the greater odds that Kapil had to overcome compared to top bowlers from other nations. Simply comparing bowling averages is not the way to compare bowlers. Bowlers from England, Australia, SA, NZ etc have pitches that support pace bowlers. Indian pitches support spin (Kumble averaged 24 here) and if not, they are generally flat wickets. The recent Australia-India series was ravaged by pitch complaints with most Australian bowlers going for 35+ averages even on their home turf. Can you imagine Kapil had to go through the same issues for his entire career? Australian bowlers break like twigs while bowling on bouncy wickets, can you imagine what would happen to these bowlers if they had to play half their matches in India, without skipping any matches like Kapil? Potential wise, Kapil was probably only second to Garry Sobers as an all rounder. He was among the fittest cricketers ever to play the game. There was nothing that Kapil was not capable of. The way he batted and bowled against the WI should be mighty proof of this. In his early years Kapil the batsman just used to demolish good bowling attack in tests - he would typically score his fifties and hundreds at run a ball, something which was unheard of during Kapil's period. Kapil had the highest batting strike rate in both tests and ODI during his playing days.

[surajmal]

any ATG ODI list without Dhoni belongs in the dustbin (recyclebin).

[Marut]

People who undermine Kapil have no idea how great a player he was. Case in point check out this scorecard where Kapil flayed 72 off 38 deliveries against WI in WI and that too against a bowling attack featuring likes of Michael Holding, Malcolm Marshall, Andy Roberts and Winston Davis. http://www.espncricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/engine/match/64209.html If Kapil had been a tad selfish he could've easily averaged 40+ with the bat in Tests and 35+ in odis. The guy was a natural and had more talent with the bat than quite a few specialist batsmen in those days. I think Kapil gets penalised for his "team first" approach where he went after the bowling from the first ball, which is exactly what he should've done batting at 7. Folks may laugh at his innings of 175* claiming it came against minnows, but that Zim team was a pretty good one and had beaten Aus in the same tourney. They had more than decent pace bowling and people forget Kapil scored those runs in a must win game when India were 17/5 and soon 29/6 on a pretty juicy pitch.

How many batsmen other than Richards were capable of playing so many whirlwind knocks like Dev? Those who undermine Kapil's batting have no knowledge of cricket, really! Kapil was perfectly capable of averaging 40-45 in tests with the bat, if only he had been more selfish and played for his averages. Kapil was one of the most naturally talented batsman against pace bowling. Next to Richards, I have never seen a batsman take on sheer pace with such mighty disdain. Dev never feared pace bowlers and could just smash them all day long if he could. No bowling lineup in the world, including the mighty WI pace quartet was safe if Kapil was in mood. He scored a run a ball hundred against them, something even Richards would be proud of. The following is a sample from test matches. 89 off 55 balls at Lords http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63314.html 73 off 53 vs Imran and co at Karachi http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63330.html 59 off 48 vs Imran and co at Karachi http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63219.html 116 off 98 vs England at Kanpur http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63219.html 65 off 55 at Manchester http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63315.html 83 off 74 against Australia at Chennai http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63241.html 100 off 95 balls against Holding, Marshall, Roberts and Garner at Port of Spain (Only Dev was capable of a knock like this in the WI, nobody else could dream of such a knock) http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63336.html 97 off 93 at the Oval http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63316.html 98 off 97 against Holding, Marshall, Roberts and Garner in WI http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63339.html Kapil made 36 such knocks in test cricket at a breath taking speed.