The Outsider Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 And your reply does not provide any argument to challenge that. Look at Guldozer's original post which says that Hindu population in West Pakistan was only 2% of the total population. That is a lie. I pointed out that in 1947, the Hindu population in West Pakistan was around 15-20%, mostly concentrated in Sindh. There was mass migration in the Punjab provience on both sides of the border in 1947, but Sindh was largely peaceful diring the Partition. Trouble only started when Mujahirs from India started setting up refugee camps in and around Karachi and other urban locations in Sindh and then forcibly extricating legal Hindu occupants of dwellings within these cities. Deprived of their belongings and abandoned by the State, Hindus of Sindh had no option but to seek refuge in India. I don't care about Guldozer or Bulldozer's reply. I've presented to you contemporary peer reviewed articles to discount what you are stating. Please present something comparable.
zen Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 More news from Pak: Link ISLAMABAD: A member of the ruling Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N), Dr Ramesh Kumar Vankwani revealed in the National Assembly on Monday that around 5,000 Hindus are migrating from Pakistan to India every year. Commenting on law and order situation in the country, the PML-N MNA said that six incidents of religious desecration happened within last two months in Sindh, majority of the incidents were regarding burning the religious books of Hindu minority in the province. Vankwani said that it was the constitutional rights of the people, belonging to different minorities, to practice their religion freely in Pakistan. “Are we not part of Pakistan?” he questioned. He said that influential people were forcefully converting religion of Hindu girls in interior Sindh, urging the government to take steps to counter such attempts from Muslim majority in the country. The PML-N lawmaker also said that it was the teaching of all the religions to respect other faiths but the minorities had failed to get equal rights in Pakistan. He suggested that the government should set up a parliamentary committee to discuss the issues related to minorities in this regard. Later, State Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Sheikh Aftab Ahmed said the government will ensure the protection of minorities at all cost as it is mentioned in the Constitution of Pakistan. Earlier, Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) MNA Shazia Marri said that sympathies of the militans were present within the political parties’ ranks otherwise it was not difficult to stop terrorist activities in the country. Marri said that some political leaders called the Pakistani Taliban as their “angry brothers.” “I pray to God to please protect us from such brothers,” she added. The PPP leader said that it was the government’s responsibility to focus on the law and order situation for the progress of Pakistan otherwise tourists and investors from foreign countries will not come to the country. She also urged the government to protect the rights of religious minorities in the country.
Texan Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I don't care about Guldozer or Bulldozer's reply. I've presented to you contemporary peer reviewed articles to discount what you are stating. Please present something comparable. You are funny....and not in a flattering way. My reply to Guldozer's post was to correct his facts in which he stated that Pakistan only had 2% Hindu population in 1947, to which you replied that is not correct. Where does your extensive post on the subject dispute the 15% figure in 1947? I cannot see any estimate for 1947 in your post. Migrations on both sides of Punjab occurred in 1947. Sindh demographics were largely intact in 1947.
Kalia_Test Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 You are funny....and not in a flattering way. My reply to Guldozer's post was to correct his facts in which he stated that Pakistan only had 2% Hindu population in 1947, to which you replied that is not correct. Where does your extensive post on the subject dispute the 15% figure in 1947? I cannot see any estimate for 1947 in your post. Migrations on both sides of Punjab occurred in 1947. Sindh demographics were largely intact in 1947. Outy is right - There was no census in 1947. There was one in 1941 and one in 1951 - There were projections based on 1941 census on what the population of muslims and non-muslims could have been just prior to partition. - Then we go by known mass-migration figures during partition ( East and West ) to arrive at what the figures would have looked like just after partition ( say 1949 or so ). - Then you compare these with 1951 figures. - You will see that the hindu population came down from just prior to partition ( 15 or so ) to 2-3 % and it has remained more or less constant. - So hindu population did come down massively but it was due to migration. Go through this extensive research with all sources - http://www.newslaundry.com/2015/01/09/the-vanishing-hindus-of-pakistan-a-demographic-study-2/ @ Outy - Maybe you can also look at the additional sources clearly listed and update your blog. It was wonderful to see someone not just going by propaganda but digging through all data :two_thumbs_up: Ofcourse all this does not mean that Hindus have any rights in Pakistan or there is no oppression. We all know their condition.
The Outsider Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 You are funny....and not in a flattering way. My reply to Guldozer's post was to correct his facts in which he stated that Pakistan only had 2% Hindu population in 1947, to which you replied that is not correct. Where does your extensive post on the subject dispute the 15% figure in 1947? I cannot see any estimate for 1947 in your post. Migrations on both sides of Punjab occurred in 1947. Sindh demographics were largely intact in 1947. It was 15% before partition in 1947. After the first wave of migrations were over by 1949 the number was much lower. To make a comparison with Hindu population today that number should be the benchmark and not the pre-partition figure of 1947. Also, check Kalia's post (thanks Kalia for providing an alternate source).
mishra Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 ^ Whole article in Kalis post seems Bullshit. I accept that Muslim in Amritsar moved to Lahore and Hindus from Lahore moved to Amritsar. But which train do Hindus boarded from Karachi, Quetta, Peshawar, Hyderabad, Multan? Apart from few Sidhis, most would have stayed back home in 1947 just like Muslims didnt catch a train from Rajastan, UP as they couldnt afford it or it wasnt practical.
Kalia_Test Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 ^ Whole article in Kalis post seems Bullshit. I accept that Muslim in Amritsar moved to Lahore and Hindus from Lahore moved to Amritsar. But which train do Hindus boarded from Karachi, Quetta, Peshawar, Hyderabad, Multan? Apart from few Sidhis, most would have stayed back home in 1947 just like Muslims didnt catch a train from Rajastan, UP as they couldnt afford it or it wasnt practical. The article predominantly talks about Punjab with data. Sindh is a different issue and I will explain in detail later if needed with some sources that I can find ( or others can pitch in ). I have read a few books on Sindh history during partition and brief summary below :- - Unlike Punjab where both countries got some share of land and migrations happened, Sindh was fully decided to be with Pakistan. - Hindus in Sindh were the affluent people ( not lower class,etc ) and they initially never had the idea to migrate to India as they were under impression that they will do well too in Pakistan. - However, many muslim refugees from India started occupying Karachi, Hyderabad ( Sind ) and driving away local people from their homes. Millions of them needed places to stay and it was mayhem. The then CM of Sind was sympathetic to hindus but Liaqat Ali Khan ( PM of Pakistan ) cut him down as he preferred muslims - Even Sindh Govt hold on Karachi was removed and brought under Central rule ( it was first Capital of Pakistan and remained so till 1958 I think ). - This was when the Sindhi Hindus started migrating to India by sailing or other means ( Do remember that migration was not a one off activity - it kept happening even till mid-late 50s in some way or the other). - Even Indian census of 1951 records about 0.8 million Sindhi Hindu refugees. There would surely have been more after 1951 too. Now - think about this. India got no land that was part of Sindh. Where do you think all the Sindhis you have in India came from? Check Sindhi population in Ahmedabad, Ulhasnagar, Sindhi Colony in Bangalore, Sindhi Colony in Hyderabad ( Indian one ) ...
Texan Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Outy is right - There was no census in 1947. There was one in 1941 and one in 1951 - There were projections based on 1941 census on what the population of muslims and non-muslims could have been just prior to partition. - Then we go by known mass-migration figures during partition ( East and West ) to arrive at what the figures would have looked like just after partition ( say 1949 or so ). - Then you compare these with 1951 figures. - You will see that the hindu population came down from just prior to partition ( 15 or so ) to 2-3 % and it has remained more or less constant. - So hindu population did come down massively but it was due to migration. Go through this extensive research with all sources - http://www.newslaundry.com/2015/01/09/the-vanishing-hindus-of-pakistan-a-demographic-study-2/ @ Outy - Maybe you can also look at the additional sources clearly listed and update your blog. It was wonderful to see someone not just going by propaganda but digging through all data :two_thumbs_up: Ofcourse all this does not mean that Hindus have any rights in Pakistan or there is no oppression. We all know their condition. It was 15% before partition in 1947. After the first wave of migrations were over by 1949 the number was much lower. To make a comparison with Hindu population today that number should be the benchmark and not the pre-partition figure of 1947. Also' date=' check Kalia's post (thanks Kalia for providing an alternate source).[/quote'] I have read that article and many others available in the public domain on this subject. And I never stated that the Hindu population did not decline significantly from 1947 due to migrations. Look at what I have posted. I have only corrected Guldozer's incorrect interpretation that in 1947 West Pakistan's Hindu population was only 2%. That is not correct. With The Outsider's post on the subject, I have slight disagreement on figures, but I largely agree with the tone that Hindus went from a significant minority to a miniscule minority in West Pakistan few years after the Partition. In 1947 though, Sindh's Hindus stayed largely intact. Their migrations into India took a few more years. By 1951, perhaps the Hindu population in West Pakistan was indeed around the 5% mark, maybe even lower. Remember, many Hindus fearing persecution might not have identified themselves as Hindu in the 1951 census.
The Outsider Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 ^ Sindh's population is small compared with Punjab. According to the '99 Pakistan census 15% of the population was Hindu. That is in line with the 1951 census. Pakistan's subjugation of minorities can be portrayed in a host of different ways - change in demographics isn't one and using it is being intellectually dishonest.
Texan Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 ^ Sindh's population is small compared with Punjab. According to the '99 Pakistan census 15% of the population was Hindu. That is in line with the 1951 census. Pakistan's subjugation of minorities can be portrayed in a host of different ways - change in demographics isn't one and using it is being intellectually dishonest. Sindh's Hindu population is about 8% according to the 1998 census. It used to be about 30% pre partition. In India, after partition, there was no major change in religious demographics in other states other than Punjab. In Pakistan that was not the case because the Government of Pakistan was sympathetic to the cause of the Mohajirs and passively encouraged them to displace Hindus in Sindh. Now, who is being intellectually dishonest?
SELVAM Posted June 7, 2015 Posted June 7, 2015 Five Hazaras shot dead in Quetta http://www.dawn.com/news/1186757 RIP
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