Raghav_12 Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 I don't blame Bose at all for trying to go with the Axis powers if it meant the British going from India but as others have said' date=' the Axis powers winning would definitely have meant India being under their rule, which, seeing the inhuman acts they committed during WW2, would probably have been worse than British.[/quote'] The idea of Bose going to Germany/Japan and working with them to fight against Britishers used to excite me a lot as a kid. I used to think wistfully how wonderful it would have been in bose ji was successful in toppling British empire and setting up a govt with the help of Hitler. This dream was mainly fuelled through the teaching of my school which had created image of Hitler as a hero in my mind and I grew up having that image in mind. First time I got to sense what Hitler actually was when I happened to witness an agitation where they were shouting "jo hitler ki chal chalega, woh kutte ki maut marega". Later on I realized how dangerous that dream was and how fortunate India was not to have that dream fulfilled.
Sachin=GOD Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 The idea of Bose going to Germany/Japan and working with them to fight against Britishers used to excite me a lot as a kid. I used to think wistfully how wonderful it would have been in bose ji was successful in toppling British empire and setting up a govt with the help of Hitler. This dream was mainly fuelled through the teaching of my school which had created image of Hitler as a hero in my mind and I grew up having that image in mind. First time I got to sense what Hitler actually was when I happened to witness an agitation where they were shouting "jo hitler ki chal chalega, woh kutte ki maut marega". Later on I realized how dangerous that dream was and how fortunate India was not to have that dream fulfilled. Honestly speaking there never was a chance of INA succeeding as Germany/Japan had their own troubles by the time Bose reached out to them so they never would have been able to provide enough resources to him. But I still admire him because he was ready to deal with the devil in order to make India independent. Though certain aspects of him were really troubling and would have created problems had he come to power - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Netaji-Subhas-Chandra-Bose-wanted-ruthless-dictatorship-in-India-for-20-years/articleshow/46980513.cms
Detonator Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Hitler aim was to colonize all the inferior races .We were just as inferior in his eyes as the Africans or Slaves Weirdly the only country Hitler considered equal was British .He had plenty of times actually prised Britain for being a colonial super power. That's also why he repeatedly offered truce to Britain unlike France or Russia . If Britain had fallen we would faced the same fate Africa or Russia faced under Hitler Yes. He considered them equal because he himself dreamt of having his Third Reich as the biggest empire in the world so he admired the British for creating such a huge empire, especially with such little population of its own. It's a bit disputed. Hitler was a Roman Catholic fundementalist with strong anti-semitic belifs. Part of the reason ranges from crucifixtion of Jesus Christ by Jews to the Jewish domination in Pre-Nazi Germany. The people he chose to kill was Jews, Slavs, homosexuals, and later communists.There is a theory that even though the Vatican has not actively opposed Holocaust, and apologized for inaction. Link Also, US nuking Japan is no different from Holocaust.
hhunaeh Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 If japan had won, they would have lined up and executed all the freedom fighters, made us into an iraq or afghanisthan, and we would had to start the freedom struggle afresh a generation later.
dial_100 Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Godse was absolutely wrong in doing what he did. That's why it is important that how kids are raised from childhood. That's all. No amount of justification will ever make it sound correct.
BeautifulGame Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 It's a bit disputed. Hitler was a Roman Catholic fundementalist with strong anti-semitic belifs. Part of the reason ranges from crucifixtion of Jesus Christ by Jews to the Jewish domination in Pre-Nazi Germany. The people he chose to kill was Jews' date=' Slavs, homosexuals, and later communists.There is a theory that even though the Vatican has not actively opposed Holocaust, and apologized for inaction. Link Also, US nuking Japan is no different from Holocaust. There is also evidence often pointed out that Joseph*Goebbels who drove the anti Semitic agenda also held anti- Christian views as well quoting his diary. So its hard to believe that Christan angle .The anti- semitic was quite popular most of Europe at the time not just Hitler .Also Jews were one of the richest community in Europe at that time .By prosecuting them , he confiscated their wealth and used to fuel his war Machine as well
Detonator Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 The point is supporting Allies doens't make one a better rather than supporting Axis powers. It's the allied countries who wiped out entire civilizations in their colony, kept African people as slaves for centuries, carried out genocides on their controlled territories, performed mass murders in the name of crusades etc., MK Gandhi's idea was to support a known devil is instead of unknown angel. SC bose, after witnessing numerous massacres like Jallianwala Bagh, Chittagong etc., he might have considered alligning with Enemy's enemy.
amiret Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 It would have been good if that internet link contained a citation or source . It does not contain any mention of the source. The likely source of that incomplete statement is from the book "Why I Assassinated Gandhi" an English translation of a book in Marathi authored by Gopal Godse (nathuram's brother)
BeautifulGame Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 The point is supporting Allies doens't make one a better rather than supporting Axis powers. It's the allied countries who wiped out entire civilizations in their colony, kept African people as slaves for centuries, carried out genocides on their controlled territories, performed mass murders in the name of crusades etc., MK Gandhi's idea was to support a known devil is instead of unknown angel. SC bose, after witnessing numerous massacres like Jallianwala Bagh, Chittagong etc., he might have considered alligning with Enemy's enemy. I am not criticizing SC Bose.He did what he thought was good for India at the time.Even most of the western world were unaware of the extent of the crimes of Hitler till Nuremberg Trials But Allies were by a long distance the lesser evils compared with the Axis powers. Hitler and co were using Posion gas to kill millions to control any revolt.Killed millions in a 3-4 year period alone in Ethiopia and China let alone the Holocaust . But it is ignorance when People even with hindsight today believe Hitler winning would have been a good thing for India
Yoda-esque Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 I wonder whether Swami Vivekananda would be called a chaddi in today's day and age
coffee_rules Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Godse was absolutely wrong in doing what he did. That's why it is important that how kids are raised from childhood. That's all. No amount of justification will ever make it sound correct. This. That has been my problem with RSS as well. They recruit very young kids who are very impressionable. They can mold their opinions whichever way they can. Discipline, Freedom struggle stories are fine, but some loony ones can teach a lot of hatred and it can breed for a whole new generation. They should only get cadres who are 21+.
coffee_rules Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Talking about shakas only. Not schools run by RSS. They are run camps with thousands of students camped for days.
dial_100 Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 ^ I did 9 years of RSS when I was young. I did 1 month camp. I attended some important meetings as well. Till date my dad goes to Shakha. But I never heard that they instill haltered the way we are making it sound. I talk to my dad openly about ideologies of RSS and BJP and many other things. I have not seen anyone as balanced and liberal as my dad. I agree that few are very right-winged but mostly there are good people. Who teach you some good qualities of life. They are very nationalist people. They teach you how to love your mother land. Having said all this, now I am not associated with them in anyways. I have not been to their regular sessions for over 20 years now.
Raghav_12 Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 This. That has been my problem with RSS as well. They recruit very young kids who are very impressionable. They can mold their opinions whichever way they can. Discipline' date=' Freedom struggle stories are fine, but some loony ones can teach a lot of hatred and it can breed for a whole new generation. They should only get cadres who are 21+.[/quote'] That's what I repeated mentioned in these discussions that RSS (and organizations run by them, including schools) pick kids less than 10 years to instill their ideologies in them. Some of the stuff that Gollum posts here like rememeber, whose blood is there in veins of owaisi) I recall hearing in my school or in shakhas which I was forced to go. That kind of language can not be and should not be used to influenec kids impressionable mind.
coffee_rules Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 That's what I repeated mentioned in these discussions that RSS (and organizations run by them' date=' including schools) pick kids less than 10 years to instill their ideologies in them. Some of the stuff that Gollum posts here like [i']rememeber, whose blood is their in veins of owaisi) I recall hearing in my school or in shakhas which I was forced to go. That kind of language can not be and should not be used to influenec kids impressionable mind. I was only speaking about shakas, schools as Yoda says are perfectly operating like any other secular school. Convents focus on an extra dosage of Christianity, while RSS schools have a focus on Hinduism. No harm in that. The voluntary organisation can corrupt the mind more. I had attended until 10th when this loony was narrating how he stole a sound system from a muslim's family barging in during riots. It is not healthy for a young kids if they come across these VHP loonies. That was the only bad experience for me and I avoided going after that. All others are about instilling discipline, Indian history (again some focus on Hindu struggle) freedom fighter stories etc..which were healthy, in general.
Tiger80 Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 I am not criticizing SC Bose.He did what he thought was good for India at the time.Even most of the western world were unaware of the extent of the crimes of Hitler till Nuremberg Trials But Allies were by a long distance the lesser evils compared with the Axis powers. Hitler and co were using Posion gas to kill millions to control any revolt.Killed millions in a 3-4 year period alone in Ethiopia and China let alone the Holocaust . But it is ignorance when People even with hindsight today believe Hitler winning would have been a good thing for India Stalin was as cruel as Hitler , infact he started policy of putting people in camps and starve them to death before Hitler.The only lesser evils were USA and Brits
Sachin=GOD Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 ^Stalin was more cruel and ruthless of the two. Hitler often acted on impulse, Stalin rarely did that and that made him far more dangerous.
coffee_rules Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Yes, little is mentioned in Indian textbooks about Stalin's pogroms. He was as bad a dictator as Hitler, minus the anti-Semitism.
BeautifulGame Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Stalin was as cruel as Hitler ' date=' infact he started policy of putting people in camps and starve them to death before Hitler.The only lesser evils were USA and Brits[/quote'] Yeah Stalin was much more cold and calculated but Hitler was the most dangerous simply becoz he was Lunatic. And Stalin was very much part of Axis powers when the war begin .Brits (and US) couldnt have done anything against Hitler without Russia almost single handedly winning the war for them.So just jumped ship with Stalin the lesser of the two evil at tha time when it seemed hopeless. The funnier thing is Churchill hated Stalin even more than Hitler .Thats one of the main reasons Hitler launched the east offense.He just couldnt envisage Churchill joining forces with Stalin :haha:
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