sensible-indian Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I know we all love too bash Dhoni (I do it too) and there may be 10,000 valid reasons for that. But sometimes I do wonder whether names like Yadav and Aaron are just there to look good on paper. I have seen Aaron go off radar so many times in the past but he did look good in the recent test series but this Yadav fellow was a spray gun there. Was then spray gun in the 1st ODI. Dropped for 2nd ODI. Spray gun in the 3rd ODI. Even when he was getting carted, he kept bowling bouncers after bouncers with no rhyme or reason. Yes, he is potentially our best pacer talent but when the feck will this guy ever learn to bowl? Ironically, it was our trundlers (Dhawal and Lord Binny) who helped us in win theb game today (along with the spinners) whle Yadav was nowhere to be seen. No line and length. No wickets. Nothing. Can't always be talking about potential, potential and potential all the time. Frustrating this is. Coming from a Yadav fan.
adi B Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Should have been rested for the odis,pointless to play himx considering all important srl tour coming
swatpulla Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Spray-guns like Yadav/Wahab/Aaron need conditions to bowl well. They are not suited to bowl on phattas (for ODIS). We are better off without extra pace here.
adi B Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Spray-guns like Yadav/Wahab/Aaron need conditions to bowl well. They are not suited to bowl on phattas (for ODIS). We are better off without extra pace here. Agree ,however it'll be interesting to see how aaron and yadav bowl in the test matches against srl (Kohli will play both) ,wahab bowled well amd troubled them with extra pace
swatpulla Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Agree ' date='however it'll be interesting to see how aaron and yadav bowl in the test matches against srl (Kohli will play both) ,wahab bowled well amd troubled them with extra pace[/quote'] Shami and Umesh in particular have been extremely impressive with their reverse for the Tests played in Asia. That suggests we should see decent results, but God knows. It's hard to judge Indian pacers on their past performances.
sensible-indian Posted June 24, 2015 Author Posted June 24, 2015 Spray-guns like Yadav/Wahab/Aaron need conditions to bowl well. They are not suited to bowl on phattas (for ODIS). We are better off without extra pace here. His bowling was wayward. We can't defend such bowlers. I can accept a bowler getting carted if he is bowling well but conditions make it easier for batsmen to attack him. But when a bowler doesn't even bowl with basic line and length, he would get carted no matter what. Case in point, when Binny took 6/4, Yadav was carted around in that green mamba.
sensible-indian Posted June 24, 2015 Author Posted June 24, 2015 I am happy with the way Aaron bowled in that Bangladesh test match. Yadav was bad there.
adi B Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I am happy with the way Aaron bowled in that Bangladesh test match. Yadav was bad there. Most of the players look disinterested man
swatpulla Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 His bowling was wayward. We can't defend such bowlers. I can accept a bowler getting carted if he is bowling well but conditions make it easier for batsmen to attack him. But when a bowler doesn't even bowl with basic line and length, he would get carted no matter what. Case in point, when Binny took 6/4, Yadav was carted around in that green mamba. There is absolutely no need to defend them. They should be out of the team in Asia, simple as that. As for that Binny special match, that was one big exception. Umesh has been decent in conditions which give fast bowlers a chance.
zen Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Good thread The quick bowlers may not be have performed as per expectations but the key point is that Ind needs to develop good pace bowlers. And you can only encourage these type of bowlers by giving them opportunities Additionally, the focus of these quick bowlers should be on picking up wkts. So the bowling and field setting needs to be such. So the questions is what type of field settings were in place for Yadav? Are Ind captains good at supporting attacking bowlers whether quicks or leg-spinners? Trundlers have their own advantages, however a Garner, Holding, Roberts, etc. will usually be better bowlers than a trundler At the end of the day, the selection would also depend up on skills. A skillful trundler may turn out to be a better bet than an unskillful quick bowler However, in the long run, Ind would need to develop good pace bowlers. Also the criteria to judge pace bowlers should be different than trundlers'. Pace bowlers should be judged on their ability to turn games by picking up wkts, giving the captain the option to create doubts in the batsman's mind, using short balls effectively, etc. And the captain has to understand that rather than expecting the pace bowler (or a leg spinner) to dry runs up and bowl as economically as a trundler, he has to look at them in terms of strike rates and other intangibles. This is the part that India tends gets it wrong, and trundlers continue to be preferred because we tend to judge bowlers primarily based on ER If taking the pace off is the key, then a spinner > trundler > quicks. Why even play trundlers who are quicker than spinners?
NareshK Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 To be honest, Yadav bowled superbly in World Cup where conditions suited him. He was one of the leading wicket takers in the tournament there, his strike rate and economy were excellent as well. It would be harsh to judge his bowling on these patta wickets. They are tailor made for batsmen and for spinners and medium pacers and that too for those who rely on being defensive by stopping runs.
sensible-indian Posted June 24, 2015 Author Posted June 24, 2015 There is absolutely no need to defend them. They should be out of the team in Asia, simple as that. As for that Binny special match, that was one big exception. Umesh has been decent in conditions which give fast bowlers a chance. Not saying Binny is someone special or one for the future.
swatpulla Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Not saying Binny is someone special or one for the future. I was referring to Umesh. One bad performance in green mamba doesn't mean that he is poor in supporting conditions. He has been good in England and Australia. If you expect him to be consistently good in ODIs, then you are expecting too much. Not everyone is a Shami/Boult or Stark.
zen Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Unless we don't change the KPIs to judge pace bowlers (and attacking leg spinners), along with having the right strategy on field to get the best out of them, Ind's bowling will not improve We judge openers differently from middle order batsmen, who are judged differently from lower-order ones. Similarly, we need to have relevant (and at times different) KPIs for a quick bowler, trundler, leg-spinner, SLA spinner, off-spinner, etc.
sensible-indian Posted June 24, 2015 Author Posted June 24, 2015 I was referring to Umesh. One bad performance in green mamba doesn't mean that he is poor in supporting conditions. He has been good in England and Australia. If you expect him to be consistently good in ODIs, then you are expecting too much. Not everyone is a Shami/Boult or Stark. Not saying he is poor in supporting conditions but the fact that him going off radar has nothing to do with conditions. If we had a bowler's track today, Yadav would have bowled the same. When he gets his line and length right, he does well everywhere (including Ahmedabad test against England). When he doesn't, the pitch doesn't really matter.
Temujin Khaghan Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 What does umesh yadav do between matches? why doesnt his accuracy improve...??? its alright if he cant swing the ball both ways, but his accuracy sucks.
maniac Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Umesh is done doesn't have that extra pace....now just a run of a mill 135k bowler with no skills and brains. Aaron is better
Temujin Khaghan Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 i normally hate sanju manju like everyone else... but he made a point sometime back. i dont know how true is the fact of the point... he said that yadav and aaron are far from being the top-5 pace bowlers in the country based on success rate in the first class arena. it seems they were picked solely on the speed aspect. i think the fact that they were picked on the speed aspect gave a sense of entitlement to umesh yadav. with the IPL security completely removing any more hunger for success. just saying..
Temujin Khaghan Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 who knows ' date='he is an ordinary cricketer blessed with muscle power ,plus it is good for the captain as well not having to keep to 140+ balls.[/quote'] what i dont understand is that kohli, raina, rohit, rahane are known hardworkers in the nets and they keep batting for hours together.. what the **** do umesh, shami, ishanth, bhuvi do during this time???
maniac Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 what i dont understand is that kohli, raina, rohit, rahane are known hardworkers in the nets and they keep batting for hours together.. what the **** do umesh, shami, ishanth, bhuvi do during this time??? Bowl to them which makes both parties look world class :giggle:
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