Srinath!

[rkt.india]

Let me clarify what I mean by the Bhajji route - starting off as a genuine matchwinner (avg of 26 and 4.5 wkts per match initially) and evolving into a most pathetic bowler (after 2011' date=' he's avg 56+ and SR of nearly 100). What I'd like to see from Ashwin is for him to get better as he grows older (like Kumble, excluding last year of international Test career) and not like Bhajji. I hope that this clarifies your misinterpretation of my statement.[/quote'] It does happen with a lot of players. He had already played 10 years by then. He had debuted pretty early too at 18. So, it is possible that he faded away earlier than most others would do. But it does not demean his achievements. Rahul Drvaid averages around 40 since 2007, does it demean what he had done before that? or SRT was very poor in his last 2 years or so. People fade away. They do lose their games. It is not Bhajji's problem that he has been selected but selector's who pick him despite him not even be effective in domestic cricket.

[Vijy]

It does happen with a lot of players. He had already played 10 years by then. He had debuted pretty early too at 18. So' date=' it is possible that he faded away earlier than most others would do. But it does not demean his achievements. Rahul Drvaid averages around 40 since 2007, does it demean what he had done before that? or SRT was very poor in his last 2 years or so. People fade away. They do lose their games. It is not Bhajji's problem that he has been selected but selector's who pick him despite him not even be effective in domestic cricket.[/quote'] Yes, but by your reckoning Sachin debuted even earlier than Bhajji and his fade began when he was much older too. Also, Dravid averaging 35-40 is poor by his standards, but by world standards, it's moderate for a top order bat. On the other hand, an avg of 56+ by any metric is poor for a bowler. I'm not blaming Bhajji for his selection. What I said was that I hope Ashwin's bowling doesn't decline as much as Bhajji's did. Certainly there will be some degree of decline (to be expected for virtually all cricketers) but some cricketers exhibit a much steeper decline than others.

[rkt.india]

Yes, but by your reckoning Sachin debuted even earlier than Bhajji and his fade began when he was much older too. Also, Dravid averaging 35-40 is poor by his standards, but by world standards, it's moderate for a top order bat. On the other hand, an avg of 56+ by any metric is poor for a bowler. I'm not blaming Bhajji for his selection. What I said was that I hope Ashwin's bowling doesn't decline as much as Bhajji's did. Certainly there will be some degree of decline (to be expected for virtually all cricketers) but some cricketers exhibit a much steeper decline than others.

SRT too had some bad phases before that, remember around 2006-2007. There was talk of him to reture after 2007 WC, but he was a genius, had the zeal to come out and do well again, not everyone can do that. Regarding Dravid's, yes, it is poor by any standard for a #3 batsman to average 35-40 for that many years. Same thing was with Ponting. He has similar record in this period. Any other less known batsman would have been dropped. Bhajji was dropped too but picked from out of the blue now.

[zen]

You got me thinking now. Got to read more about Mankad now. He may get into our all time XI as the 2nd all rounder.

Mankad is an ATG player. He is Ind's first great all-rounder. In a time when cricketers used to earn peanuts, he is said to have slept outside of the stadiums to play cricket .... He would be an ideal candidate for the 2nd spinner (Kumble or Chandra as 1st) and #6 slot (He used to open too), giving Ind two genuine bowling all-rounders in the 11 + Dhoni (wk+batsman) Gavaskar Shewag Dravid Tendulkar VVS Mankad Kapil Dhoni Srinath Kumble / Chandra Zak

[Vijy]

Mankad is an ATG player. He is Ind's first great all-rounder. In a time when cricketers used to earn peanuts, he is said to have slept outside of the stadiums to play cricket .... He would be an ideal candidate for the 2nd spinner (Kumble or Chandra as 1st) and #6 slot (He used to open too), giving Ind two genuine bowling all-rounders in the 11 + Dhoni (wk+batsman) Gavaskar Shewag Dravid Tendulkar VVS Mankad Kapil Dhoni Srinath Kumble / Chandra Zak

Prob the kind of team that most would agree with - only VVS would be challenged by Hazare. Someone should open that old thread about India's all time Test XI.

[zen]

Prob the kind of team that most would agree with - only VVS would be challenged by Hazare. Someone should open that old thread about India's all time Test XI.

Amarnath as well considering his record against top teams such as WI and his ability to fight it out in the middle .... However, VVS has played a few classic innings to just book the berth imo

[kosingh]

Let me clarify what I mean by the Bhajji route - starting off as a genuine matchwinner (avg of 26 and 4.5 wkts per match initially) and evolving into a most pathetic bowler (after 2011' date=' he's avg 56+ and SR of nearly 100). What I'd like to see from Ashwin is for him to get better as he grows older (like Kumble, excluding last year of international Test career) and not like Bhajji. I hope that this clarifies your misinterpretation of my statement.[/quote'] Maybe it has to do with the captain he's playing under. Didn't Dhoni encourage Bhaji to bowl defensive darts down legside. Here's a comparison of his stats under Dhoni and under Ganguly

[Vijy]

Maybe it has to do with the captain he's playing under. Didn't Dhoni encourage Bhaji to bowl defensive darts down legside. Here's a comparison of his stats under Dhoni and under Ganguly

Bhajji was brilliant under Gangs - close to 5 wkts per match and excellent avg (for spinners of that time) too. Against Dhobi, he started off decently since the overall avg is not too bad (about 1 higher than current avg). You may be right in saying that Dhobi's captaincy had something to do it; however, I also feel that he simply wasn't extracting as much turn, bounce, zip, revs, etc like he used to at his best.

[rkt.india]

Bhajji was brilliant under Gangs - close to 5 wkts per match and excellent avg (for spinners of that time) too. Against Dhobi' date=' he started off decently since the overall avg is not too bad (about 1 higher than current avg). You may be right in saying that Dhobi's captaincy had something to do it; however, I also feel that he simply wasn't extracting as much turn, bounce, zip, revs, etc like he used to at his best.[/quote'] This is what happens when mindset becomes defensive and you are bowling to stop runs rather than taking wickets. He lost that ability of flight and turn. He used to beat batsmen with flight. He wasn't a big turner of the ball but would beat batsmen in flight and then bounce will do its job. He always had more top spin than side spin.

[Gollum]

This is what happens when mindset becomes defensive and you are bowling to stop runs rather than taking wickets. He lost that ability of flight and turn. He used to beat batsmen with flight. He wasn't a big turner of the ball but would beat batsmen in flight and then bounce will do its job. He always had more top spin than side spin.

Add to that his doosra came under the spotlight for chucking. He lost 50% of his venom because of that.

[Vijy]

Add to that his doosra came under the spotlight for chucking. He lost 50% of his venom because of that.

Loss of doosra has certainly affected many bowlers from Bhajji to Ajmal.