Tamil Folk Singer Arrested for Sedition Over Song Criticising Jayalalithaa

[Singh bling]

Firstly, it's not 4-5 incidents as I've pointed out.

Secondly, can you point me to the careful analysis you are referring to so I can examine it in more detail and point rebuttals/criticism if any?

I will try to find data on communal incidents after Modi. So far you can look at this

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/forums/topic/94208-think-india-has-become-more-communal-under-modi-the-numbers-will-disappoint-you/

 

The numbers clearly tell there is hardly any very serious communal situation compared to previous years

[Yoda-esque]

I will try to find data on communal incidents after Modi. So far you can look at this

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/forums/topic/94208-think-india-has-become-more-communal-under-modi-the-numbers-will-disappoint-you/

 

The numbers clearly tell there is hardly any very serious communal situation compared to previous years

Why do you want to go through the trouble of finding the data,let the accuser do that...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Singh bling]

Firstly, it's not 4-5 incidents as I've pointed out.

Secondly, can you point me to the careful analysis you are referring to so I can examine it in more detail and point rebuttals/criticism if any?

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2015-07-21/news/64683114_1_communal-incidents-clashes-ministry

Communal violence in the country up by 25% in first five months of 2015

 Communal riots rose by 25 per cent in 2013, says MHA data

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/communal-riots-rose-by-25-pc-in-2013-mha/

There is increas in 25percent communal incidents in 2015 but There was also 25 percent increase in 2013 .Please remember at that time the entire country media and all feel that India is absolutely safe How come 25 percent jump now is so bad 

Edited November 4, 2015 by Singh bling

[vvvslaxman]

We need a stat statewise. Need to know which state has gotten worse in law and order.

[vvvslaxman]

Math is wrong it is only 20% increase

[Singh bling]

We need a stat statewise. Need to know which state has gotten worse in law and order.

The Eight States are evenly spread across the country
Of the 35 States/UTs of India, only eight (8) states accounted for close to 85% of all the communal incidents in the country. Bihar, Gujarat, Karnataka, Kerala, Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra, Rajasthan & Uttar Pradesh are part of this group. It is also interesting to note that these states are from all the regions of country. Karnataka & Kerala are from the South, Gujarat & Maharashtra are from the West, Rajasthan & Uttar Pradesh from the North, Bihar from the East & Madhya Pradesh from Central India. What is interesting is that, these eight states were ruled by different parties during this period. The Congress, BJP, NCP, SP, BSP ruled these states at various points in time.

https://factly.in/communal-incidents-in-india-statistics-57-communal-incidents-per-month-last-4-years-85-these-incidents-happen-in-8-states/

 

The trend within these states
The trend within these states is vastly different. In Bihar, the number of incidents was in the 20s after which it suddenly tripled in 2013. Even in 2014, this number stood at 61. In Gujarat, the number of incidents has been continuously increasing. This increasing trend was observed from 2011 to 2014. In Kerala, the number of incidents almost doubled in 2012 compared to 2011. Since then, there has been a gradual reduction in the number of incidents. In 2014, there were just 4 such incidents in Kerala. In Rajasthan, the number of incidents came down on 2012, but, has been on the rise since then.

In Karnataka, the number of incidents more or less was close to 70 in each of these years. In Madhya Pradesh, the number of incidents increased in 2012, but, has decreased since then. In Maharashtra, the number of incidents has increased in alternate years (2012 & 2014). In Uttar Pradesh, the number of incidents more than doubled in 2013 compared to 2012, but, came down substantially in 2014.

 

[The Outsider]

I will try to find data on communal incidents after Modi. So far you can look at this

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/forums/topic/94208-think-india-has-become-more-communal-under-modi-the-numbers-will-disappoint-you/

 

The numbers clearly tell there is hardly any very serious communal situation compared to previous years

I don't want to put you in a spot since it is not your analysis, but since you appear to be quoting it to bolster your point I have a few questions, which you might or might not have thought of before putting forth that analysis.

1. What is the justification that the number of communal incidents can be used as a proxy for tolerance. As an extreme example, the number of communal incidents in Saudi Arabia is minuscule, but does that make Saudi Arabia a tolerant society and government?

2. The author comes to a conclusion about statistical insignificance based on a trivial example. What is the null hypothesis, p-value, and level of significance of the result?

Can you justify how the numbers 'clearly' tell there is no serious communal situation?

[G_B_]

 Pretty much all the educated and people with social awareness regardless of which party they are affiliated to, are against TN's liquor policy .  More and more families get destroyed. Even school students resort to drinking at very early age. So it is a serious social issue that people want to deal with.  Sure some parties politicize it. But just because it is being politicized, it doesn't mean it is not a legitimate issue.  This is one sample. According to this guy's son this arrest was expected by his family. He directly puts a curse on her .. attacks her with words though with limits. Since you cannot arrest for that, they charged him with "sedition".. which is a bunch of baloney.

 

 

I am curious, when they say liquor ban do they mean TN is going to go dry? 

[vvvslaxman]

 

 

I am curious, when they say liquor ban do they mean TN is going to go dry? 

No.  Definitely not.  Agriculture, Manufacturing, Tourism there are other areas. Even after this they have  doubled the debt in 3 years.

[beautifulgame]

No.  Definitely not.  Agriculture, Manufacturing, Tourism there are other areas. Even after this they have  doubled the debt in 3 years.

That's what happens when u give everything for free .

 

I am curious, when they say liquor ban do they mean TN is going to go dry? 

Yes that's what opposition is demanding .

[Singh bling]

I don't want to put you in a spot since it is not your analysis, but since you appear to be quoting it to bolster your point I have a few questions, which you might or might not have thought of before putting forth that analysis.

1. What is the justification that the number of communal incidents can be used as a proxy for tolerance. As an extreme example, the number of communal incidents in Saudi Arabia is minuscule, but does that make Saudi Arabia a tolerant society and government?

2. The author comes to a conclusion about statistical insignificance based on a trivial example. What is the null hypothesis, p-value, and level of significance of the result?

Can you justify how the numbers 'clearly' tell there is no serious communal situation?

1) In the population of 1.3 billion what measure apart from do you have to measure poverty , illetracy , healthcare , rapes , murders etc The answer is stats similarly for for measuring communal situation you also have stats. Just remember the days when 1946-47 , number of communal incidents went phenominally high , result Hindu sikhs started leaving their homes and muslims too left their homes , both went in camps in search of safe place. Do we have this type of situation?

 

Your example of Saudi is wrong . Saudi Arabia is not multi religious societies  neither they claim to secular , they say they treat minorities according to sharia  so anybody can read sharia and tell how will they treat minorities.

 

Apart from numbers what other measures do you have to check communal situation 4-5 out of blown incidents by media or some writers and others returning award or some loonies making idiotic statements. The other option you have come to India and travel like common man for months in different parts of country and ask people will you do that?

[The Outsider]

1) In the population of 1.3 billion what measure apart from do you have to measure poverty , illetracy , healthcare , rapes , murders etc The answer is stats similarly for for measuring communal situation you also have stats. Just remember the days when 1946-47 , number of communal incidents went phenominally high , result Hindu sikhs started leaving their homes and muslims too left their homes , both went in camps in search of safe place. Do we have this type of situation?

 

Your example of Saudi is wrong . Saudi Arabia is not multi religious societies  neither they claim to secular , they say they treat minorities according to sharia  so anybody can read sharia and tell how will they treat minorities.

 

Apart from numbers what other measures do you have to check communal situation 4-5 out of blown incidents by media or some writers and others returning award or some loonies making idiotic statements. The other option you have come to India and travel like common man for months in different parts of country and ask people will you do that?

I'll try to reply to this post in a bit more detail when I am not hampered by typing on my phone. 

However, one point I did want to assert is that you've given me 0 or shunya statistical backing of the claims made in the article. Can you please do it or retract the article as something bolstering your point of view.

[someone]

In South India, criticizing Jaya will mean jailtime while in whole of India, criticizing Sonia will mean jailtime. That's a implicit rule and well understood by many here as well. Hostile parties continue to exist and threaten freedom of common man.

[Singh bling]

I'll try to reply to this post in a bit more detail when I am not hampered by typing on my phone. 

However, one point I did want to assert is that you've given me 0 or shunya statistical backing of the claims made in the article. Can you please do it or retract the article as something bolstering your point of view.

What type of statistical backing do you need?

[The Outsider]

What type of statistical backing do you need?

The author makes a claim that the change is statistically insignificant- what is the null hypothesis, p value, and level of confidence of the result? Sanghis are prone to throw around scientific sounding words with zero understanding of their meaning, so let's explore the claim with a bit more scrutiny.

[Singh bling]

The author makes a claim that the change is statistically insignificant- what is the null hypothesis, p value, and level of confidence of the result? Sanghis are prone to throw around scientific sounding words with zero understanding of their meaning, so let's explore the claim with a bit more scrutiny.

I am not saying you go by word , just go by stats

 

2015 first five months = increase 25%

 

2013 whole year increase = 25 % 

2014 , it came down but 50:50 rule of Cong , BJP 

 

My questions is very simple if increase by 25% is so high then why anybody did not say that situation in India is bad in 2013?

Also can we say that it is worse than 1983-1993  , The bloodiest and most communal 10 years 

[Singh bling]

The author makes a claim that the change is statistically insignificant- what is the null hypothesis, p value, and level of confidence of the result? Sanghis are prone to throw around scientific sounding words with zero understanding of their meaning, so let's explore the claim with a bit more scrutiny.

I am not saying you go by word , just go by stats

 

2015 first five months = increase 25%

 

2013 whole year increase = 25 % 

2014 , it came down but 50:50 rule of Cong , BJP 

 

My questions is very simple if increase by 25% is so high then why anybody did not say that situation in India is bad in 2013?

Also can we say that it is worse than 1983-1993  , The bloodiest and most communal 10 years 

[The Outsider]

I am not saying you go by word , just go by stats

 

2015 first five months = increase 25%

 

2013 whole year increase = 25 % 

2014 , it came down but 50:50 rule of Cong , BJP 

 

My questions is very simple if increase by 25% is so high then why anybody did not say that situation in India is bad in 2013?

Also can we say that it is worse than 1983-1993  , The bloodiest and most communal 10 years 

I am going by stats. When someone is making a statistical statement like 'statistically insignificant', it is meaningless without the parameters in the question I asked.

So, ignoring the statistics bit and coming back to my previous post which I had to cut short because I was on the phone, there is absolutely no way to equate number of communal incidents to tolerance.

You didn't like my Saudi Arabia example so let's talk of Ahmedabad where Muslims essentially live in walled slums and ghettos. Ahmedabad hasn't seen major communal violence for a decade, but no one can say it is a tolerant city with tolerant communities. 

Or let's take an example closer to you. During the Punjab militancy of the 80s there were minimal communal incidents, but Hindus in villages had to strike deals with militants to survive - both on economic and social fronts. I don't think you will argue Punjab was tolerant in the 80s or in fact even well into the 90s.

[Singh bling]

I am going by stats. When someone is making a statistical statement like 'statistically insignificant', it is meaningless without the parameters in the question I asked.

So, ignoring the statistics bit and coming back to my previous post which I had to cut short because I was on the phone, there is absolutely no way to equate number of communal incidents to tolerance.

You didn't like my Saudi Arabia example so let's talk of Ahmedabad where Muslims essentially live in walled slums and ghettos. Ahmedabad hasn't seen major communal violence for a decade, but no one can say it is a tolerant city with tolerant communities. 

Or let's take an example closer to you. During the Punjab militancy of the 80s there were minimal communal incidents, but Hindus in villages had to strike deals with militants to survive - both on economic and social fronts. I don't think you will argue Punjab was tolerant in the 80s or in fact even well into the 90s.

I can understand your argument that stats may not always be true but still stats do tell us lot . By you logic per capita income should also be useless because one person earning million will destroy stats?

 

Now If I accept your logic that stats  no way equate to communal incidents then what is the other best method?Media , rumours or some intellectuals telling us that nothing wrong or very wrong in nation? All these are very highly unreliable methods compared to stats.

You mentioned Punjab but you have to remember that in 80s Punjab saw Hindu's leaving Punjab for safer states and Sikhs left many other Indian states for Punjab  and again stats did tell us that there was slight increase in sikh population in Punjab and decrease in Hindu population in 1991 census again I am asking you is this happening anywhere happening in mass scale. Lets accept Devil Modi the butcherer of Muslims ruled Gujarat for 12 years after 2002  so , Muslim population should had been declined and moved to safer pasture in country like their strong hold in UP Bengal or Kerala , Kashmir?

 

As far Ahmedabad is concerned as long there are no communal incidents + any community leaving , you have to accept that is peace and tolerance. Congress maintained peace in the same way , they did not put muslims out of ghetto's and put them in Hindu localities, they maintained the peace in above way and no intellectual , media  had much problem with that , they all were proud of tolerant India , so what has changed so much now?

Whenevr minority community feel vulnerable , first they fight back , means increase in communal incidents , once they realised they are severly outnumbered and nothing will help them then they start leaving for safer pasture , and that is boiling point of communal tension. Is this really happening in nation?