Post 2011, Has our batting been a bigger letdown then our bowling in ODI's ?????

[Ankit_sharma03]

As has been always been the saying  India's bowling is their weekness, our bowling cant defend any total,and many such things. Yes we have been that side that has given more than 300 runs most during such phase which if we carefully understands is for a reason due to change in rules and increase in no of flat wkts all around the world. I can bet past any indian bowling lineup wud had the same issue in current scenario's and bowlers are struggling world over.

 

Question is when did we had gr8 bowling and when was our bowling our strength yet we were a gud ODI side. But we havent been that gud post 2011, specially overseas coz only winning at home doesnt make u a top side. Infact Sa n Pak have defeated us at home as well n Eng(3-2 in 2013) and aus (3-2) wudnt be called home dominance either. Home victories are to credit to spinners mostly as they destroy opp.

 

Ind-bang, ind-pak ,ind-nz , cb series 2015,Ind-sa were mostly batting failures and the only match we won in Ind-pak series was due to bowling. The only big achievment during past 4 yrs was champions trophy which actually shud be credited more to bowlers as we had low total to defend accept Sa game which had 300 on board by our batsman n that also wasnt entirely unchasable. Ind-eng (5-0) whitewas at home in 2011 was again mostly ashwin-jadeja show with dhoni brilliance. 

The only series i rem which was complete batsman driven in our favour was Ind-aus series where dhawan,rohit, kohli n dhoni won us the series. 

 

So is our batting really strong now or a myth???

 

Man to Man comparison of our batting from 2011 and now 

 

Sehwag, Sachin, Gambhir, kohli, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Raina/yusuf  V/s  Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli, Rahane/Raydu, Raina, Dhoni , Sir jadeja 

 

Well, every batsman then was a match winner and now we only have Rohit n kohli, Dhawan is extremely inconsistent n dhoni under utilized so basically 7 match winner to 3, 3.5 .

 Our bowling wasnt gr8 back then either infact we had more week fielder add to that but that batting lineup had many match winner than now. The Problem with current batting is even if rohit kohli are consistent and they make gud runs the lower order is so incapable to add the extra edge needed to safe our bowling and recent Ind-aus series was prime example for that. And if we are defending and Top 3 doesnt click well the story is over there itself. Can we really call it a strong bowling lineup. N then we head to testing conditions where its Mostly kohli show and dhoni giving some fight so how are we only blaming our bowling. 

 

Analyzing our current batting (not including pandey as he yet to play atleast few no of games)

 

1. Opening- Give them absolute Patta's they ll put a run feast but slight help for bowler creates problem. As opener they dnt give gud starts at times but certainely not as blistering as Sehwag-gambhir or Sehwag sachin use to. Yes, Sehwag was an x-factor but gambhir with him had brilliant strike rotation and Sachin had his own brilliance. I still rem Sehwag n gambhir use to put up more runs in 10 over back then compare to these two now. Where Rohit has been quite consistent dhawan has become a headache now and add to that high % of dot balls both face. Compare to other teams amla n de kock are gud in all condition and very consistent and Aus who has Warner, finch as x factors.  Even if u have to defend big total u need solid or atleast fiery start and we have lacked both consistently.

 

2. No 3, kohli the only shinning spot in comparison to previous batting order. In fact high dependance on him showed last yr when he didnt have a gr8 year in LOI's n we didnt win a single series. 

 

3. No.4- IF anything yuvraj singh downfall has hurt our batting the most. He was the most complete ODi batsman who could win u games from any situation and was becoming an Odi giant. He indeed was one of the greatest match winner and compare now we have rahane n raydu who are anything but match winner. Both play High no of Dot balls and their stroke play is like zero comparison to yuvraj singh. Infact they both have to hided when there is a need of accelration . For me this has been Our biggest problem. Rahane struggles on slow pitches at start specially if u put him in middle and raydu batting against pace n bounce is highly doubtful. Rahane another problem is he doesnt convert his starts 2 centuaries in 70 games is not a gud record. How many times has he lost his wkts in 40-70 . That score has an effective if its by yuvraj n sehwag coz they had higher higher S/R but rahane's make those score ineffective as well. Take Sa series not even his one score was effective.

 

5. Raina- Ok what the hell is this guy doing up the order, and there was a project to make him a no4 batsman. Raina is one batsman who has actually gone down if u compare to his early years. He has to be the most undependable batsman around the world. Against tall n fast bowler he is a sure shot failure. Consistency is a word unknown to him . Batting up the order means there wud be many time he wud have to build an innings and thats were he is completely confused whether to attack or defend and opp are clear that they have to attack which leads to his downfall. In past we had dhoni n yuvraj batting at that spot who use to do both roles really well and were extremely consistent against all attacks. More than Raina its team Management n captain who are responsible for this position failure as he is given so many chances and he highly unsuitable to bat up. 

 

6. Dhoni- It cant be more tragic that one of the Best Odi batsman plays only few balls. Can someone Explain me what gr8 can he do in 15-25 balls than 70-80 batting up. No one but himself to blame that he has wasted himself so low  and infact many matches that we cud have won had he bat up instead of raina. In previous batting lineup there was a problem that most batsman were better top order player than him and we rarely had gud lower order batsman but now wen we lack a gud no.4 n 5 whats the reason to hide behind. Another stupid logic given is he can save us from downfall situation ...... whatttttt..... so u mean he can put more runs batting with tail than batting with proper batsman up having more balls. At his position a batsman only gets around 5-10 over and he usually takes 25 balls to get going but batting so low doesnt give u that many balls and with not playing one format it has impacted his rhythm n stroke play. All Blind Dhoni Bhakts who gives example of RCB choking well atleast captain kohli lead from front and took the team to final with an extremely shitty bolwing attack which is actually worst than Indian bowling and didnt loose final badly either rather hiding back. Burn ur stupid excuses. 

 

7- Jadeja - No comments . HE would be the worst no 7 among all teams i guess. Cant hit the ball and has developed a glaring week technique as to when he debuted. Even if we are going gud till 45 over his poor batting can bring opp back in game in last 5 over. 

 

8. Ashwin/bhvi vs bhajji/zak - There were many occasion when bhajji n zak hitting gave us those extra quick runs which is not the case ashwin n bhuvi whose batting are far more suited to test format 

 

I dont think so our batting is our strength, we shud rather say two batsman are our strength baaki sab bhagwan bharose. Our captain n his blind bhakts shud stop blaming bolwers and rather concentrate on changing the batting order and players. Bowling was never our strength. 

 

My suggested batting order for future

 

1.KL rahul (More Consistent and has better technique than dhawan and has better stroke play than rahane)

2.Rohit

3.Kohli (do not change his position, what an idiotic move was that of changing ur best batsman order last yr . No wonder we lost more games)

4.Pandey- (Looks gud as of now but ill have Nair as my backup)

5.Dhoni- (for god sake n teams sake dnt bat below this, lead from front)

6.Yuvraj/raina/hooda/Krunal (anyone who can give me around 5 over  and bats at decent S/r coz no one in top order bowls. OR else we have to play jadeja/axar/rishi at 7 for those 10 overs. Yuvraj option was due to improvement in his batting n fielding and what worse can it be than raina)

7.Hardik PAndya- ( dnt judge him by ipl ,no of Chances have been given to rohit, raina, dhawan due to their abilities. More then him being deserving we need a player like him. The only way he cud improve is exposure n patience. ) 

 

Backups- Dhawan (subcontinet), Rahane(overseas), Karun nair

Edited June 18, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[maniac]

It is absolutely our batting.......2011 England tour should not have been as bad as it turned out and even in the Aussie tour of 2011,we could have at least drawn a couple of games.

 

2014-Moeen Ali of all people destroyed us......

 

Likes of Anderson and Broad running through our lineup is expected.....We all expected MJ and Harris or even Starc and Hazelwood to make us hop around in Australia but gifting wickets to Moeen Ali and Lyon

 

As I have said before, back in the day our batsmen were ruthless against spin-be it Warne or Murali and adequate against swing bowling.....We would be blown away by raw pace.

 

these days it is the opposite-our batsmen can absolutely smack 150+ bowling even when on a bouncy pitch as long as there is no lateral movement but we are absolutely pathetic against spinners including  part-timers like Elgar.  Swing bowling let us not even go there.

[fineleg]

Forget against swing, can they bat well against offcutters of Mustafizur Rehman?

[maniac]

Just now, fineleg said:

Forget against swing, can they bat well against offcutters of Mustafizur Rehman?

The Fizz is still a mystery bowler....not a lot of teams have picked up on his off cutters,so benefit of the doubt there.

 

Also he will get wickets only if the opposition is on a full on attack mode,don't think he will have a great test career.

 

He has developed a killer yorker though so let us see if he improves but right now in tests,Indians will not get out to him.

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, maniac said:

It is absolutely our batting.......2011 England tour should not have been as bad as it turned out and even in the Aussie tour of 2011,we could have at least drawn a couple of games.

 

2014-Moeen Ali of all people destroyed us......

 

Likes of Anderson and Broad running through our lineup is expected.....We all expected MJ and Harris or even Starc and Hazelwood to make us hop around in Australia but gifting wickets to Moeen Ali and Lyon

 

As I have said before, back in the day our batsmen were ruthless against spin-be it Warne or Murali and adequate against swing bowling.....We would be blown away by raw pace.

 

these days it is the opposite-our batsmen can absolutely smack 150+ bowling even when on a bouncy pitch as long as there is no lateral movement but we are absolutely pathetic against spinners including  part-timers like Elgar.  Swing bowling let us not even go there.

true, agree with all . But my concern was regd LOI , as far as test is concerned its the evergreen story of our cricket. Yes the only thing which is diff now that we are more comfertable against pace n bounce minus movment than against spin. 

 

I wud likes ur views regd Odi cricket batting

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, maniac said:

The Fizz is still a mystery bowler....not a lot of teams have picked up on his off cutters,so benefit of the doubt there.

 

Also he will get wickets only if the opposition is on a full on attack mode,don't think he will have a great test career.

 

He has developed a killer yorker though so let us see if he improves but right now in tests,Indians will not get out to him.

 

 

yup , being a mystery bowler is an advantage in ur 1st yr the test begins when teams pick u up and well know what happ to mendis . The gud thing about fizz is he has bloody gud yorker and slower ones which will always keep him in buss add to that he has got speed unlike most of our bowlers. I doubt about his test cricket as i always beilved mystery bowlers work well in LOI then test . There was also a  chink that was being discovered in ipl that left handers play him better and also its better to play him like a spinner who bowls faster ones. I feel teams wud soon have left handers in order just for him and their job wud be to attack him. 

[sourab10forever]

How can you type so much?...phew

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 hours ago, Viper said:

Lol interesting how he starts of with an excuse saying rcb has worst bowling but that wasn't even the reason for the choke... Went missing when it mattered the most wc 2015 and finals of IPL.. Few years down the line same old crap ll be written for Virat.. just at his bum some people are right now..

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

I can say the same about dhoni went missing in 2015 wc accept a small inning against Wi, hidding behind raina in semi final

I dnt rem dhoni ever performing in ipl finals n he has lost 4 ipl final and 2 semi as well, the man did nothing much in whole ipl.

 

Btw kohli was ur best batsman in 3 t20wc, let me not even go dhoni batted in all t20 wc

 

yes same things wud be written about virat after few n has been with every captain becoz thts the time captain looses the plot n its time to shift the responsibility. The reason is wrote Blind is coz anyone who beilves a player is bigger than a team well thats the correct word.

 

Neways the post is regd our batting problem, which has been a counter to all ur loss excuses of blaming on bowling. 

A proper pro or counter analysis wud be better from ur side 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

15 hours ago, sourab10forever said:

How can you type so much?...phew

trust me i hate it, but i think wenever u shud write something u shud give a proper analysis covering all point. N it had to be long coz it talking about whole batting order so in short it covered around 10 batsman .  

[Ankit_sharma03]

29 minutes ago, Viper said:

Say all you want.. man does make it count most if the time when it matters the most.. how did zim match go in wc anyway after that crumble.. which 2 saved it ?? Nice hiding story as usual but its not the first time he sent raina up the order.. rahane was playing on the other end.. left hand right hand combo. May be go rewatch ipl ? Atleast he can say he won 2 Ipls unlike a team with world' s best batsmens chocking since 5 years under him.. At the end of the day did we win those 3 wcs that he played well in ??? If batting was alright what's the problem ?

Its just obvious your bowling was shit. End of discussion..

Save us by removing that 5g hacks and that crew rishi , mann and few others. . Just not INTL material...

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Talking about Ipl 2-3 batsman doesnt make the whole batting strong, that was the point of the post if u wud read carefully. India around 2003 had sachin sourav dravid didnt make our batting the strongest but strong battong was aus who had depth n right fire power. So Kohli abdv gayle alone doesnt make a batting lineup world best and matches r won by bowlers nt batsman. 

 

Have u forgotten project raina or Cb series b4 cup where raina again batted up, wankhade match where raina again cam up. when on earth have raina build or saved an inning that he was send above specially against team with tall n quality pace . i wud have understood had had opp had some spinner not johnson , stac. Dnt defend raina promotion that was the biggest failure 

 

By ur logic no bowler shud play- umesh n aaron gives runs, Rishi is nt int standard. Since when mann was a bowler. Bhuvi , mohit are shitty becoz they gave 400 runs in wankhade ur words. What do u want kapil , srinath n zak coming out retirement

Edited June 19, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[sourab10forever]

33 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Talking about Ipl 2-3 batsman doesnt make the whole batting strong, that was the point of the post if u wud read carefully. India around 2003 had sachin sourav dravid didnt make our batting the strongest but strong battong was aus who had depth n right fire power. So Kohli abdv gayle alone doesnt make a batting lineup world best and matches r won by bowlers nt batsman. 

 

Have u forgotten project raina or Cb series b4 cup where raina again batted up, wankhade match where raina again cam up. when on earth have raina build or saved an inning that he was send above specially against team with tall n quality pace . i wud have understood had had opp had some spinner not johnson , stac. Dnt defend raina promotion that was the biggest failure 

 

By ur logic no bowler shud play- umesh n aaron gives runs, Rishi is nt int standard. Since when mann was a bowler. Bhuvi , mohit are shitty becoz they gave 400 runs in wankhade ur words. What do u want kapil , srinath n zak coming out retirement

U seriously arguing with him?

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, sourab10forever said:

U seriously arguing with him?

Yea i was srsly wondering what i was doing arguing with him . I found an emo that explains how anyone feels talking to him  so relatable 

[sourab10forever]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Yea i was srsly wondering what i was doing arguing with him . I found an emo that explains how anyone feels talking to him  so relatable 

I use a better one...this: