renjith Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 21 minutes ago, express bowling said: I did not talk about World 11 bowlers. That Wahab and Rahat are better than Umesh and Ishant is just your opinion. Their respective performances don't suggest that. Yes it's my opinion only and it's not purely based on stats. When I see them bowl I feel selectors should have looked for replacements much much earlier. Link to comment
express bowling Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) 46 minutes ago, renjith said: Yes it's my opinion only and it's not purely based on stats. When I see them bowl I feel selectors should have looked for replacements much much earlier. The selectors should definitely look for replacements all the time till we find pacers like Steyn and Starc. I don't dispute the fact that most of our pacers are mediocre. I am just saying that most current day Pakistani, SL, NZ and WI pacers are mediocre too. Edited August 26, 2016 by express bowling Link to comment
renjith Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 43 minutes ago, express bowling said: The selectors should definitely look for replacements all the time till we find pacers like Steyn and Starc. I don't dispute the fact that most of our pacers are mediocre. I am just saying that most current day Pakistani, SL, NZ and WI pacers are mediocre too. Agree to some extent. Personally I will pick bolt, southe, wahab, Rahat, eranga, prasad ahead of Ishant or Umesh irrespective of bowling condition. Link to comment
Tibarn Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Last 5 years Tests Overall figures Team Players Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 India 12 2011-2016 43 200 3358.0 605 11662 298 7/74 9/118 39.13 3.47 67.6 11 0 Pakistan 16 2011-2016 34 149 2631.0 435 8659 233 6/127 8/151 37.16 3.29 67.7 9 0 ODI Overall figures Team Players Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI Ave Econ SR 4 5 India 25 2011-2016 97 318 2358.5 119 13493 375 5/61 35.98 5.72 37.7 13 1 Pakistan 18 2011-2016 80 226 1784.0 73 9821 271 5/55 36.23 5.50 39.4 5 1 T20 Overall figures Team Players Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI Ave Econ SR 4 5 India 22 2011-2016 36 107 334.0 5 2631 109 4/19 24.13 7.87 18.3 1 0 Pakistan 18 2011-2016 44 122 396.1 3 3229 129 5/6 25.03 8.15 18.4 2 1 Link to comment
Vilander Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 1 hour ago, renjith said: Agree to some extent. Personally I will pick bolt, southe, wahab, Rahat, eranga, prasad ahead of Ishant or Umesh irrespective of bowling condition. Link to comment
Vilander Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 3 hours ago, renjith said: @vilander, @express intl class does not mean they have to make world 11. neither do they have to be legends. Amir and wahab are intl class bowlers. Rahat is a high quality bowler. So is junaid. Not sure why he was not picked. For me those guys are way ahead of the likes of Ishant Umesh varun aaron, ... read my post again. I am never saying they should, i explain the contrary and differentiate world class and Internationals. For me when it might be that when i do weed, i get so stoned that Santa becomes real, but then i dont have to proclaim it here saying 'for me' this for me that. Dont cop out bring substantiation if its your opinion its irrelevant in a fact based forum, go write in a fiction story writing forum maybe. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 8 hours ago, renjith said: Agree to some extent. Personally I will pick bolt, southe, wahab, Rahat, eranga, prasad ahead of Ishant or Umesh irrespective of bowling condition. just perception Link to comment
renjith Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 7 hours ago, Vilander said: Chill down Bro. Forums are meant for people to express their views. You have all rights to disagree but that is different from ridiculing other members. Link to comment
renjith Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 54 minutes ago, rkt.india said: just perception When @express thinks nz seamers are mediocre, it's his perception. When @Vilander thinks eng seamers are poor than indian, it's just his perception. Everyone is entitled to theirs. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, renjith said: When @express thinks nz seamers are mediocre, it's his perception. When @Vilander thinks eng seamers are poor than indian, it's just his perception. Everyone is entitled to theirs. no. they are not talking about from perception but from stats. Stats say they are as average as our bowlers. Only you who says our bowlers are worse despite stats showing otherwise and that is called perception. and remember likes of Umesh Yadav is yet to play a single test in England, NZ, South Africa countries that are known for conditions somewhat helpful for fast bowlers. Edited August 27, 2016 by rkt.india Mosher 1 Link to comment
renjith Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 49 minutes ago, rkt.india said: no. they are not talking about from perception but from stats. Stats say they are as average as our bowlers. Only you who says our bowlers are worse despite stats showing otherwise and that is called perception. and remember likes of Umesh Yadav is yet to play a single test in England, NZ, South Africa countries that are known for conditions somewhat helpful for fast bowlers. Stats says vinay kumar is the best bowler in india. Do we have to agree with that. I accepted the stats @express posted. But just was looking at other aspects as well. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, renjith said: Stats says vinay kumar is the best bowler in india. Do we have to agree with that. I accepted the stats @express posted. But just was looking at other aspects as well. yes, Vinay Kumar is one of the best bowlers in our domestic cricket. Stats dont lie and he is good in domestic cricket but domestic success does not guarantee success in international cricket. Vilander and Mosher 2 Link to comment
renjith Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, rkt.india said: yes, Vinay Kumar is one of the best bowlers in our domestic cricket. Stats dont lie and he is good in domestic cricket but domestic success does not guarantee success in international cricket. For making that judgement you considered other aspects of his bowling rite. That's only what I was trying to say. How do people say dhawal won't succeed in intl cricket. It's the same logic. Edited August 27, 2016 by renjith Link to comment
express bowling Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 13 minutes ago, renjith said: Stats says vinay kumar is the best bowler in india. Do we have to agree with that. Vinay is definitely one of the best bowlers in Indian domestic cricket. But he is bad at international level. The reason is...... In domestic matches, most batsmen are not international class. Accurate bowling, with some movement, at 127 k is good enough to dismiss most of them. Problem is...in international cricket, batsmen do not make mistakes if a short bowler, without bounce, is bowling at 127 k. Mosher 1 Link to comment
renjith Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, express bowling said: Vinay is definitely one of the best bowlers in Indian domestic cricket. But he is bad at international level. The reason is...... In domestic matches, most batsmen are not international class. Accurate bowling, with some movement, at 127 k is good enough to dismiss most of them. Problem is...in international cricket, batsmen do not make mistakes if a short bowler, without bounce, is bowling at 127 k. The factors you mentioned is beyond stats rite? Link to comment
express bowling Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, rkt.india said: no. they are not talking about from perception but from stats. Stats say they are as average as our bowlers. Only you who says our bowlers are worse despite stats showing otherwise and that is called perception. and remember likes of Umesh Yadav is yet to play a single test in England, NZ, South Africa countries that are known for conditions somewhat helpful for fast bowlers. A very important point that is missed by many. Yadav has never been played a test in conditions best for pace bowling....and yet, he has the best SR among Indian pacers ever. From : ESPNCRICINFO Mat Wic Ave SR in Australia 2011-2015 7 12 236.3 29 1099 25 5/93 7/176 43.96 4.64 56.7 1 0 in Bangladesh 2015-2015 1 2 9.0 1 49 0 - - - 5.44 - 0 0 in India 2011-2015 7 14 171.3 33 549 23 4/80 7/103 23.86 3.20 44.7 0 0 in Sri Lanka 2015-2015 2 4 54.0 11 214 5 2/65 3/129 42.80 3.96 64.8 0 0 in West Indies 2016-2016 2 4 49.0 15 149 5 4/41 5/75 29.80 3.04 58.8 0 0 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/376116.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling Edited August 27, 2016 by express bowling Mosher 1 Link to comment
express bowling Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 20 minutes ago, renjith said: The factors you mentioned is beyond stats rite? No.... I explained the reasons for good stats by Vinay Kumar in domestic cricket and bad stats for him in international cricket. Vinay Kumar does not have good stats in international cricket. Vilander 1 Link to comment
renjith Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) 21 minutes ago, express bowling said: No.... I explained the reasons for good stats by Vinay Kumar in domestic cricket and bad stats for him in international cricket. Vinay Kumar does not have good stats in international cricket. Are you saying that stats is the only criteria for judging a player? Following your posts you were the one who really wanted to look beyond stats when selecting plyers from domestic for A and senior teams. Edited August 27, 2016 by renjith Link to comment
rkt.india Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 50 minutes ago, renjith said: For making that judgement you considered other aspects of his bowling rite. That's only what I was trying to say. How do people say dhawal won't succeed in intl cricket. It's the same logic. Yes, those aspects. I dont see anything that current Pak or SL fast bowlers and Indian fast bowlers do not have, even skill wise. I do not see much of a difference. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 11 minutes ago, renjith said: Are you saying that stats is the only criteria for judging a player? No, stats alone isnt a criteria but that is important too. If those bowlers are so good, their stats must back their claims too. Link to comment
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