Areas where Kohli is better than Tendulkar as a player.

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Over the years, most Australian pitched have had true bounce only.  But, tacking even that has not been easy by touring sides, barring SA batsmen, as they are not used to it.  It demands a different technique.  Also, the deck-hitting and often quick  Australian bowlers know how to use the pace and bounce of the pitch to trouble touring batsmen.

 

The difficulty of playing in Australia have rarely been inconsistent bounce or more than usual movement...barring quite a few tracks in Perth and a few surfaces here and there.  But, still, touring batsmen have not done that well consistently.

 

This fear of the swinging ball is something that has cropped up after the T20 leagues started and batters don't go for county stints. Otherwise, it has always been fearing pace and bounce and looking forward to swing bowlers...this had happened over decades.

yes, but these pitches were not like those pitches we have seen over the years. You cannot compare MCG 2011 pitch to 2015 pitch. Cant compare SCG 2011 pitch to 2015 pitch. Actually, in Australia, only Perth and Gabba provide any pace and bounce, at times MCG does too and it is just a myth and perception that all pitches in Australia provide pace and bounce.

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

yes, but these pitches were not like those pitches we have seen over the years. You cannot compare MCG 2011 pitch to 2015 pitch. Cant compare SCG 2011 pitch to 2015 pitch. Actually, in Australia, only Perth and Gabba provide any pace and bounce, at times MCG does too and it is just a myth and perception that all pitches in Australia provide pace and bounce.

They sill provide more bounce than more places, especially to bowlers who can hit the deck hard.  Check out how the wicket-keepers collected deliveries even on those grounds in 2015.

[narenpande1]

2 hours ago, Gambit said:

You started this thread with a specific comparison between Kohli and Tendulkar. You should have expected some people to agree and some to disagree. Just because most people have not agreed with you doesn't mean you are under attack, so get over your persecution complex and playing the victim.

 

When your arguments were met with counter arguments, you started calling others rabid fanboys.

In my case, in this post (

) you assumed that I swore by this "cult figure" thereby labelling me in your head as a Sachin fanboy. It seems that it is you who cannot stomach opinions counter to your beliefs and views, and therefore find it easier to attach labels to others so that in your head

 

@Gambit

 

I have not taken any names and I was certainly not alluding to you. You are one of the longest standing patrons of the board here and among the most reasonable debaters.

 

I do not wish to take names to further inflame anyone's feeling but things such as " pot stirrer ",

" flame thrower " , " attention seeker " , " wants to rile SRT fans " ...etc have been attributed.

 

As another poster mentioned, most of us may have gotten a busy with our lives and stop following cricket for a few years, I too went through such a phase and the emergence of Virat as the vanguard of our batting certainly got me a little excited following cricket again.

 

The thread OP was to celebrate this new phase in Indian cricket where the new batting leader had raised the bar in his generation and raised the intensity to win unseen in Indian cricket hitherto.

 

Some moderator/poster here on many occasions stated most ridiculously how I had " something personal " against Sachin.

 

I don't have anything personal but do understand him alot better than 99.9 % of our naive people.

 

I don't have alot of tolerance for someone  taking my millions of my countrymen for a ride, and while I am 

not accusing Sachin of this.. it rankles me to see how he emotionally entraps our folks.

 

Picture that pathetic tugging 100th 100, which was to only serve one man's purpose. We got our backsides kicked out of Asia Cup losing to a lowly Bangladesh.

 

On the field, he pointed the bat to the national flag on the helmet after his pathetic knock as if to say that this was for the country. Are the rest of the member's not playing for the country or is the only one.

This type of theatrics has endeared him to millions of people. It was ironic because that knock was only to get that personal milestone of his back and FOR HIM.

 

Post that Ambani throws a function where Sachin announces that this record was " for India " and he " wanted it for India " . India had actually lost. This sort of nonsense is bought by millions of people.

 

Are we really this stupid ??

 

My brother in law happens to be a marketing director with the sports management company that he signed the last 3 year contract through retirement. I am told that while Sachin under the contract was under no legally binding compulsion to play through the end of the contract in Nov/Dec 2013 -- he 

was to have a proportionate haircut in commercial terms if he retired prior to end of the contract.

 

And guess what - he kept on playing to fulfill the commercials of the contract, rather than retiring gracefully after the 2011 WC. He can never come on TV and give an explanation on why he continued playing ODI cricket post the 2011 WC. 

 

Few people realize that he is a self serving opportunist  kind of character with a very strong PR team.

 

His PR team floats around messages that Sachin would never endorse alcohol , no matter how well it pays but what they don't tell you is that it is a strategic move with financial ramifications. He would automatically be disqualified from his FIAT and Boost  endorsements  should be promote alcohol. 

Yet millions of naive people talk about how " great " he is not to endorse alcohol.

 

This is the same guy who was a regular at Bal Thackerays house for weekend lunches together post the riots in 92. I have never like the goondaism of Bal Thackeray, but that did not deter Sachin from making sure that he is able to leverage who ever is in power.

 

Post Shiv Sena/ BJP decline in power, he cuddled up to Congress who for 60 plus years looted India because they were in power and in a position to bestow the Bharat Ratna to him. He did not even have the courtesy to pay a visit to Bal Thackeray when he expired. He was in the country. He had called him father like and " more than family " when Shiv Sena was in power.

 

I have reasons to dislike him because he is not exactly how is PR portrays him to be.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by narenpande1

[Cricketics]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

That is incorrect.  Sydney and Adelaide have always been a bit slower than other Australian pitches...but they are still faster and bouncier than Rajkot.  The ball does not grip there in the first 3 days.

No. You think that but it isn't at the start of the game. It gets good to to score but that does not mean that i gets it slow all the time.

 

There is a reason why India played just one spinner there. There is a reason why Australia always play one spinner there along with three pacer bowlers along with an all rounder like Marsh who is also medium pace. 

 

Even in recent history, in the last two pink ball  test matches, Adelaide has offered lot of pace to the bowlers in first two sessions which were played day time.

 

Both games barely lasted 3 days and I am talking about the Australia vs NZ test from last year at Adelaide and Aus vs RSA last month.

[Cricketics]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

yes, but these pitches were not like those pitches we have seen over the years. You cannot compare MCG 2011 pitch to 2015 pitch. Cant compare SCG 2011 pitch to 2015 pitch. Actually, in Australia, only Perth and Gabba provide any pace and bounce, at times MCG does too and it is just a myth and perception that all pitches in Australia provide pace and bounce.

Not a myth. It is fairly simple there. There is a bit always for the bowlers through first 3 days. Little bit will always change, you can not expect the exact same looking pitch every where. No one can copy paste and come up with the same pitch year in year ouf. However, as you said pitch will provide the chance for batsmen to shine there. Teams can score 500 and 450 and yet one of them can win easily because there is always a bit for bowlers and batsman tend to struggle to the seamers as the game progresses.

 

You will see the odd one carry which is what makes Australian pitches interesting as they will look flat and players would look well settled and then there will be some regulation seam ball which will carry well and the player would nick it easily and get caught behind. 

[mishra]

[mishra]

18 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Saeed Ajmal has an average of 28 with an SR of 65 despite bowling the way he did and was already 37 years old when he was banned.

Bhai, The sign of greatness is not always in figures. Fans make a player great. In the runup to him being caught, Pakistanis became too touchy about Ajmal. He justified that new sect of Pakistani fans by occasionally pawning Tendulkar KP and all.

 

[express bowling]

47 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

No. You think that but it isn't at the start of the game. It gets good to to score but that does not mean that i gets it slow all the time.

 

There is a reason why India played just one spinner there. There is a reason why Australia always play one spinner there along with three pacer bowlers along with an all rounder like Marsh who is also medium pace. 

 

Even in recent history, in the last two pink ball  test matches, Adelaide has offered lot of pace to the bowlers in first two sessions which were played day time.

 

Both games barely lasted 3 days and I am talking about the Australia vs NZ test from last year at Adelaide and Aus vs RSA last month.

That is my basic contention...pitches in Australia are not like Indian pitches and generally have something for fast bowlers who know how to use the conditions.  

[Cricketics]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

That is my basic contention...pitches in Australia are not like Indian pitches and generally have something for fast bowlers who know how to use the conditions.  

Yes, even visiting players have enjoyed bowling there. For example Doug Bracewell and Boult looked deadly on that wicket last year. 

 

Australian pitches will always look flat.  There is a reason why teams play 3 seamers there. It will always have something for bowlers. They are not flat like SSC,Colombo. 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Cricketics said:

Yes, even visiting players have enjoyed bowling there. For example Doug Bracewell and Boult looked deadly on that wicket last year. 

 

Australian pitches will always look flat.  There is a reason why teams play 3 seamers there. It will always have something for bowlers. They are not flat like SSC,Colombo. 

Which wicket? Adelaide. You do realize that they prepare somewhat different pitch for day-night tests. They left quite a lot of grass and was not typical Adelaide pitch.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

That is my basic contention...pitches in Australia are not like Indian pitches and generally have something for fast bowlers who know how to use the conditions.  

Yes, they do but not the pitches on 2015 tour. Those pitches had nothing for bowlers apart from Gabba to some extent. Even Gabba was comparatively flat. Those pitches were completely different to what we have usually seen in Australia.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Cricketics said:

No. You think that but it isn't at the start of the game. It gets good to to score but that does not mean that i gets it slow all the time.

 

There is a reason why India played just one spinner there. There is a reason why Australia always play one spinner there along with three pacer bowlers along with an all rounder like Marsh who is also medium pace. 

 

Even in recent history, in the last two pink ball  test matches, Adelaide has offered lot of pace to the bowlers in first two sessions which were played day time.

 

Both games barely lasted 3 days and I am talking about the Australia vs NZ test from last year at Adelaide and Aus vs RSA last month.

did you even watch those games. Adelaide pitch in day-night tests has been completely different and not a typical Adelailde track.. They left quite a lot of grass against NZ and SA D/N tests. Please think about things like these and dont just say that it was bowling friendly against NZ, so, same would have been the case against India too. Two different pitches, two different series.

[Cricketics]

14 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

did you even watch those games. Adelaide pitch in day-night tests has been completely different and not a typical Adelailde track.. They left quite a lot of grass against NZ and SA D/N tests. Please think about things like these and dont just say that it was bowling friendly against NZ, so, same would have been the case against India too. Two different pitches, two different series.

Regardless of them leaving grass or not, did you see any of 2015 and 2011 test or just saw total scores and called it flat pitches.

 

Why would India play 3 pacers and just 1 spinner there if it was that slow of wicket.  

 

 

[Dinx - the Jinx]

Just a thought - Imagine if Sachin is still playing tests and Kohli is captain. Do you think 'Personal milestones 'out of our system' would have been possible?

[Cricketics]

32 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Yes, they do but not the pitches on 2015 tour. Those pitches had nothing for bowlers apart from Gabba to some extent. Even Gabba was comparatively flat. Those pitches were completely different to what we have usually seen in Australia.

'The whole Australian pitches didn't turn a world in four years.

 

The adelaide test provided a lot of runs for batsmen when they applied themselves in 2011. It was as flat as it was in 2015 when Kohli scored and it was as good for bowlers as it was in 2015.

 

To get to the original topic why the pitch discussion started. Adelaide will always be good to bat if you apply. And I mentioned that above but was told that 2011 conditions were tough for batsmen. It wasn't tough. We just sucked on that tour. That is the fact

[BeautifulGame]

'The whole Australian pitches didn't turn a world in four years.

 

The adelaide test provided a lot of runs for batsmen when they applied themselves in 2011. It was as flat as it was in 2015 when Kohli scored and it was as good for bowlers as it was in 2015.

 

To get to the original topic why the pitch discussion started. Adelaide will always be good to bat if you apply. And I mentioned that above but was told that 2011 conditions were tough for batsmen. It wasn't tough. We just sucked on that tour. That is the fact

That isnt fact .The fact is the conditions were helpful for bowlers in 2011 and flat in 2015.

[Cricketics]

6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

2011 pitches were not similar to 2015. Apart form Adelaide, all pitches had something for pacers. You do realize pitches can be different every series. Remember Vizag pitch, it was a rank turner against NZ in last ODI, but come test against England, ball barely turned for spinners.

You said apart from Adelaide,  which brings back me to the point that if 2011 did not have much for pacers, then we clearly batted really bad. Aformentioned by me to @BeautifulGame who thought Kohli scored on all easy tracks. The whole point is that similar surface is where our team struggled four years ago. Why because our batsmen were tested with Aussie pace even though the pitch might be one of the easier ones to bat on among the other Australin pitches. You still got to earn the runs. And Adelaide still provides enough for bowlers to tedt the batsmen and that is what it did both times but Kohli and Vijay batter than most.

 

 

[Cricketics]

16 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

That isnt fact .The fact is the conditions were helpful for bowlers in 2011 and flat in 2015.

Adelaide was as flat as 2015 then where we let Australia score 600 and then could not evn score 300 once.

 

We batted extremely bad in that game. And on that whole tour as a team. This was a rare occasion in a long time when all of them struggled together in Australia. 

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Cricketics said:

Regardless of them leaving grass or not, did you see any of 2015 and 2011 test or just saw total scores and called it flat pitches.

 

Why would India play 3 pacers and just 1 spinner there if it was that slow of wicket.  

 

 

yes, I did all of those games. I am not calling them based on scorecards or cricinfo. but it seems like you have not if you think Adelaide against NZ and against India had same type of pitches. 

[Cricketics]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

yes, I did all of those games. I am not calling them based on scorecards or cricinfo. but it seems like you have not if you think Adelaide against NZ and against India had same type of pitches. 

Never said same. Check my post above. I keppt mentioning pitched will always differ from year to year and you can't copy paste the pitch but pitches do not become flat overnight as it was suggest about adelaide, 2011